From physio to speaking coach: Trang Nova on losing the title and finding her voice

Trang: when you are following your heart. This is a life long journey, so you can’t fail. You will be invincible. You have this energy and this, this passion that. You might not have had previously, and it’s going to be infinitely

Trang: renewed, like you’ll have infinite, an infinite source and infinite renewing of this energy, of this passion.

Caitlin: Hello, hello. Welcome to the place for offbeat health professionals who have bravely swapped their healthcare hats for nonclinical creative caps. I’m Caitlin, a psychologist, turn copywriter, and this is healers with hustles.

Caitlin: Now my guest today, Tran Nova, who is a speaking coach for entrepreneurs who want to speak with confident authority so they can be recognized as visible leaders in their business and on stages through a tran’s lifelong journey from being a withdrawn introvert. Oh, feel that To now being featured on global platforms like TEDx and Medium,

Caitlin: she realized that speaking is a skill that can be mastered by anyone, not just those whom it comes naturally. So now she’s on a mission to help others harness the power of their voice. Amazing.

Caitlin: Well, welcome to the podcast, Trang. I’m so, so, so happy you’re here. Before we hit record, we were having like a big chat about like the, about the profession, like identity in particular, what it means to

Caitlin: Be a healthcare professional and like step outside and do something totally different. and so I’m really keen to hear all about your story because you were a physio originally, right?

Trang: Yeah. Yeah. Well, firstly, Caitlin, thank you so much for having me on the podcast. it is a joy and a delight to be here. And yet we were talking so much even before we started recording, and we’re like, this is, this is already the conversation that could be on the podcast.but yeah, so I, I used to be a physiotherapist and I’m no longer practicing Now.

Trang: It’s, it’s been over four years since I’ve stopped practicing, but it’s been a, a wild ride in between, which I’m sure we’ll get into in a moment.

Caitlin: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. maybe like, tell me a little bit about that, like in terms of when you started questioning the path and what you were doing and maybe that moment where you’re like, no, actually there’s something else that I wanna do. Talk me through that.

Trang: Mm. There was definitely a single moment actually, so it, it’s a wild ride. To, to start from the very beginning, I think it’s worth mentioning that I grew up here in Melbourne, and I was born to Vietnamese immigrant parents. So coming from war and poverty, they only wanted one thing for me when I grew up.

Trang: They wanted me to have a stable life. So the options for my career were to become a doctor, a lawyer, or a disappointment, like those are the options right now. I was quite sporty, so I thought I would meet them in the middle, and

Trang: physiotherapy was something that appealed to me.

Trang: Like my dad’s a doctor and my sister’s a dentist.

Trang: So physiotherapy, like the clinical practice and related to sport, was something that I thought I wanted to do. So I, I did my Masters of physiotherapy at Latrobe Uni. Graduated in 2017, and I started practicing for a few years and everything was going well. You know, I was generally comfortable, generally happy, doing well until one particular morning. And this morning, like everything changed. What happened was I had gotten up early to go for a run. It was still early, so quite dark. it was raining. I couldn’t see very well, and I stepped out onto the footpath to begin my run. And when I did that, I heard a crunch and I was like, what’s that? What’s going on? I looked down and I’d stepped on a snail. Now, this isn’t the first time that I’d stepped on a snail before, and I’m sure all of you have before by accident. But for some reason that morning I couldn’t stop thinking about it. I couldn’t help but feel guilty that like me going for a run on this day at this time, I’d caused such an effect on something outside of me. Like in this case, I’d killed something. And as I was running, and it was a long run, I think it was two hours, ’cause I was doing like triathlons at the time. I had a lot of time to think. And as I was running, I remember it was sunrise. So I got up to the top of this hill. I looked over at the neighborhood, the sky was pink, the sun was coming up over the horizon, and I had this realization moment.

Trang: It was like this light bulb moment of, oh my gosh. Yeah, every one of my decisions, every one of my actions has a consequence. And

Trang: in this case it was quite obvious ’cause it happened straight away. But so many of these consequences of our actions go beyond what we often would witness or even understand.

Trang: Like there’s just like such a ripple of consequences

Trang: for every action that we take. Essentially, what I was really acknowledging and, and it was coming to light, was as a human being. I was starting to realize that I had a very big footprint and could have a very big footprint, and this was the realization of this run. So this started. What I call my quarter life crisis because I started to see how much of a footprint I had, how much responsibility I had, how much of the world’s problems and world’s future rested on my shoulders, and I really felt the, the burden of that. So I went into this space for about eight months when I was like. Oh my gosh. You know, what am I doing with my life? What can I do with my life? Especially with what I do every day, which was my work? What could I do that would have the most. Positive impact for our world, like now and for future generations. But I really was questioning this since, you know, at the time I was practicing as a physio. I had patients coming in out, in, out every 20 minutes in

Trang: between four walls. I was also working in a gym. So I was, I was helping people to squat to shape their beauty a little bit more, or, you know, to lose that extra percent of Right. So, and, and I want to also. Mentioned that I think every work, every profession is needed, right? Like it’s so needed and people get injured and people need, in this case people need allied health professionals and physiotherapists and chiros and osteos to help them. But for me, I was like seeing things at such a great scale that I couldn’t unsee it. And, and for me, I started to question how can I help people, not just as athletes,

Trang: but as human beings?

Caitlin: I love that.

Trang: And that started my journey. Yeah. That started the journey of starting my business and eventually leaving the profession of physiotherapy.

Caitlin: Gosh, that’s in really incredible story. It feels like a, a film or something like that. I was just like imagining, yeah, like going on this run and having those big boards. That’s incredible. Are you quite a deep, you must be a really deep thinker then, like that.

Trang: I, I’d say sometimes actually like this, this. This, run that, I went on that that morning. It w it took me by surprise. I didn’t expect to have my entire quarter life, Christ crisis activated just by stepping on a snail. I think it was just like right time, right place kind of thing. Like, you know how.

Caitlin: Hmm.

Trang: Like, because when I stepped on that snail, and now that I look back on it, it’s such a profound moment because it’s such a small event. Like we step on snails all the time. It’s, it’s such an insignificant event, but it made me realize that we have these insignificant events all day, every day in our life, and yet they do have the power. To activate a, a major epiphany and really change the trajectory of our

Trang: life, but it’s, it’s up to us to stop. Reflect on that insignificant events. Otherwise we just continue with our life and nothing changes. So, yeah, I think I’d just gone through so many of those moments and it had just brushed by and I’d bypassed those moments that, yeah, it had led to this moment of I was ready to face this truth and I was ready for this change.

Trang: You know, that model, the, the stages of readiness

Caitlin: Yes, the.

Trang: Yeah, like I think I hadn’t realized and I wasn’t conscious to it until I was

Caitlin: Yeah, it’s, but like you say, ’cause it is exactly what I was thinking when you were talking. I was like, how incredible that you were able to take that moment and then like, reflect on it and like Exactly you’re in that it was like, things like that would happen all the time. I know for me, for my, one of my little moments like that was when I was in like sitting, you know, I was working in palliative care as a psychologist and I was.

Caitlin: Palliative parent. Yeah. And I was working with older adults and one of my patients was, you know, telling me that they had had a great life. It was a really beautiful thing. And they said like, I will never die. I won’t die wandering. You know, I’ve lived my life, I’ve done everything I wanted to. I lived, you know, I’ve lived a fulfilled life.

Caitlin: And I think that was like a little seed and it was like in the back of my mind. And I kind of went through pushing through burnout, like as health professionals do. And it reached a point where that like kept on floating back to me. I’m like, what else do I wanna do?

Caitlin: Like I’ve always loved writing and then I found out about copywriting and like the rest is history.

Caitlin: But of course like that history of, it’s like quite a bit of a challenging thing to go from healthcare professional to like creative or doing something totally different. Like what was that experience like for you? What was some of the challenges?

Trang: Mm, so many. I, I continue to say to this day that it was one of the most challenging personal journeys that I’d been on. I think luckily I already had a base of coaching. So

Trang: when I started my business at that time as a life and mindset coach, so I could work with people

Trang: at this comprehensive level and, and raise their consciousness and help them to reach their potential in their lives, I was already coaching to some degree because I was not just a physiotherapist. I was a running and strength coach. So that’s why I was working in a gym

Trang: and that made it easier for me because I already had. Somewhat of a business in the coaching industry. It was just sports coaching rather than anything else.

Trang: So that made it like a bit of an easier sidestep, but didn’t mean that it was still easy because. As I expanded my coaching and I started to incorporate programs and services that were revolved around mindset and life coaching, as I started to change my job title and stopped introducing myself as a physiotherapist and instead as a mindset and life coach, as I. Sat on, what was it like? It would’ve been like November, which is the yearly time that my, upper registration renewal is due. As I sat there thinking, do I renew for another year or do I, you know, not renew, do I renew as a non-practicing physiotherapist? Like all of these moments, we are really challenging everything that I’d known about myself. And would know about myself like for so many years now. And you would get this, and I think a lot of the listeners would really resonate with this.

Caitlin: Yeah, absolutely.

Trang: job is so closely tied to your identity

Trang: and when it’s all you’ve talked about in year 12 in high school, ’cause that’s what you wanted to get into at uni. And then you study for four or five years at uni and then you start practicing and it’s like the first thing that’s on your LinkedIn, it’s how you introduce yourself and someone asks, what do you do? It’s your entire. Identity

Trang: is your entire lifestyle. It’s your entire expectation for the future. Like, I thought that this was going to be my forever profession. Like I, I didn’t

Trang: hate it. I enjoyed it. I, I, I wanted, I, I, I wanted to help people with their sporting injuries and achieve their sporting potential. So really accepting at a mental and emotional level who I was and who I was going to be. It was going to be different from what I had originally anticipated. Dealing with familial and community expectations was also a big part,

Trang: and I can see.

Caitlin: me about that. Like how did, what was that experience like?

Trang: Yeah. Like as if dealing with it on your own isn’t already challenging, but having so many unsolicited voices Yeah. That makes it, that next step challenging. And for me, I made the joke before about my parents having certain expectations for my career. Luckily at this time, I was already living out of home. so they, they didn’t have any. Control over me and, and what I would do. But of course, I think the, the classic comments of, oh, you know, you should renew your registration just in case. Or, oh, like, why, why would you leave physio? Like, it’s such a good profession. You’re getting paid well, it’s such a good job and you’re getting these voices that insinuate that you’re not just sidestepping, nor are you progressing. It’s insinuating that you are regressing in your career.

Caitlin: Yeah. Yeah,

Trang: you’re, you’re going backwards. And I think this is what a lot of people are challenged with because like I said before, a lot of people when they are at Crossroads in their career and they want to start a new business, it’s not because they don’t know it, it’s because deep down there is a voice inside that

Trang: telling them that they’re meant for more or their heart is calling for something different.

Trang: So deep down they know. But the challenging part is. Dealing with fear of judgment or fear of failure, or what are people going to say if I mess up, am I going to make a fool of myself? Is this viable? What are people going to think? Are people going to laugh at me? So I think that was, that was really challenging.

Trang: ’cause family was the main one that challenged me. something that I have conversations with, with clients and, and different people is not just family, but the community that you’re already in. Like we talked about this just a little bit before, you know,

Trang: when you are in this clinical space, then all of your friends from uni, your colleagues, your acquaintances, they are all also in this space. And the clinical space is very clinical, it’s very scientific, it’s very professional,

Caitlin: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Trang: right? And if you want to go into a creative, business or a creative pursuit, it’s. Almost contradictory to this clinical, scientific professional space. And it doesn’t have to be, but I think the narrative says that it is.

Trang: So there’s a huge pressure of, oh my God, what is that one person going to think? And it’s wild to think like that, but a lot of us, without realizing it, are actually putting so much. So much weight on the opinion of one, two, or three people. And when we, when we really reflect and we peel the layers off, it’s not even fear of judgment of just general society.

Trang: It comes down to opinion of between one or three people in our current community. And when we shine light on that, it just seems so ridiculous that we are. Making decisions for our own life based on someone who won. We don’t even know for sure if they’re going to judge us like we are currently hypothesizing.

Trang: Like it is purely a hypothesis and we don’t even know if that’s true, but secondly. They might not even be thinking of us. They’re probably not. They haven’t thought twice about if we are going to side our business or pivot careers or move in a different direction. it’s it’s making it less than 0.1% of their thought process.

Trang: Like, trust me, it’s barely in their minds, but to us, when it’s unchecked,

Trang: it’s this massive

Trang: giant beer and a giant wall to us taking action.

Trang: so yeah, I, I think. Not just, dealing with our own identity, but dealing with fear of judgment, I think is a big one that, that holds us back.

Caitlin: And you would’ve, yeah, definitely. Like I love that you say that it comes down to a few people because it’s so true. Like I’m just thinking about here and at different stages, like when I first started posting on Instagram, I had like thoughts about like, oh, what is this per like, when I thought about it, I was like, what is this person gonna think?

Caitlin: And it’s like, well. I dunno, I’ll just like block them or

Trang: Exactly like this one person, like our, a high school friend who we haven’t spoken to for three years or something.

Trang: It’s just like, why do we do this to ourselves?

Caitlin: Yeah. Like, exactly. It’s like, and then I’m like, oh, well, we’ll let them, like, whatever. Or, or even like the thought of, well they’re not the ones you like paying, paying my bills. Right? Like, I’ve gotta

Caitlin: put myself out there

Trang: Yeah.

Caitlin: I say that, now when I’m out of it, but when I was in it, it was so, so deeply challenging.

Caitlin: I’m so glad there are people like you that help people with stuff like that.

Trang: Yeah. Yeah. It’s, it’s a whole thing and and there’s so many layers to it. There’s so many dimensions to it. I think something else as well for me, related to what I was saying before was the fear of letting go. Of recognition, like letting go of a job title that is quite globally recognized and it’s globally respected. And I would notice how whenever I introduced myself as a physiotherapist, people’s eyes would widen and they’d be like, oh my gosh, you’re a physiotherapist. That is so cool. Like you must be very smart and you, you get these comments.

Trang: And I had a lot of.

Caitlin: into.

Trang: Yeah, exactly. And, and same for you, right, Caitlyn? letting that go and. Starting to introduce myself as a job title that is not universally recognized. It is not university qualified. It is in fact a job title that gets a bit of hate and you know, gets made fun of online. And at the time I was younger than I, I am now, so at the time I was 24, 25. So I was the living and walking. Like living and walking version of what people make fun of. Oh, those 25-year-old life coaches who know nothing about life, but they think they know everything like I would, that was such a big blockage for me of letting go of the perceived status. Of

Trang: what my work was to then go into what my heart called for,

Trang: but would go against what I’d been taught my whole life about what you should pursue, right?

Trang: Like, like I said, my parents coming from war and poverty, it’s about a stable life. It’s about setting yourself up to have a good career, like having a stable income. So I had to rewrite that narrative and I had to do a lot of inner work to let go of my ego. And choose what was right for me.

Caitlin: That would take, yeah, would’ve taken so much courage, particularly, but I think, yeah, you’re right. Like it’s not just your own narratives. It’s like the, your family, that culture, all of that like that is there and it’s to buck, you know, the trend and do something totally different.

Trang: Yeah.

Caitlin: It’s incredible and it’s, I’m just thinking like how wise you are 25, but you sound, you’re very wise and still are.

Trang: Oh, thank you, Caitlin. Yeah, I’m, I’m very grateful because while I was doing my strength and running coaching, I was already somewhat running my business, right? So I was already working with a life and business coach, and that was such a lifesaver for me. I, I believe because. I believe if I weren’t working with him at that time,

Trang: I would’ve eventually, sooner or later given up and gone back to physiotherapy.

Trang: Like I know for a fact that there were multiple moments along the journey that I was ready to throw in the towel and. Those moments were critical. It was like crossroads, or am I going to choose this path or that path? Am I going to go back to what is comfortable and what is safe or continue down the path of what is not comfortable and what is scary and like, I just want to get out of here.

Trang: And it’s not, it’s dangerous. It’s, it’s not safe. but he really helped me with many teachings, many coaching moments. Many moments of support that helped me to see things in this way and something that I remember he shared with me. And it, it stuck with me so much. It helped me through those, those moments where I doubted myself that I’d love to share right now. So if, if, if anyone is currently sitting on the fence, you know, if you are just getting started with your business or your creative hustle. Or you, you’re doubting yourself. Maybe you’re six months in, maybe you’re two years in, you’re hitting a wall and it’s getting hard. I want you to remind yourself that whenever you follow your heart, you are invincible. You can’t not be like you are invincible when you follow your heart because there is no expiry date. There is no finish line. Like when you are following your heart. This is a life long journey, so you can’t fail. You will be invincible. You have this energy and this, this passion that. You might not have had previously, and it’s going to be infinitely

Trang: renewed, like you’ll have infinite, an infinite source and infinite renewing of this energy, of this passion. You rise up time and time again until you get to where you want to go and this belief system, whether it’s true or not, I mean there is no one who can truly say if that’s scientifically fact, but that belief system. Is what I believe, what got me through and has gotten me to where I am today.

Caitlin: Well, that’s, oh, I’m so glad that you had that. How, oh, I had a que. Yeah. Like I had a question in there like a little while ago about that, because you seem like you have this incredible energy. Like you’re so confident, you’re like, radiate, like, I don’t know, I’ve just like almost permanent goosebumps.

Caitlin: So you’ve been talking, but that’s probably not how you’ve always been, right? Like, tell me about like rejection. Tell me about. If that’s okay. Talk about like

Caitlin: about all of that other side of things.

Trang: Yeah, absolutely. This is a big part of what I love to talk about because like you said, and like so many people say, I do come across as very confident, very extroverted, very natural when it comes to speaking, but that’s not the case, and I am the same as you. I am introverted

Trang: more than I am extroverted.

Caitlin: Yeah.

Trang: so as I said, I was born to Vietnamese immigrant parents growing up. I learned how to speak Vietnamese before I could even speak English. And in Australia when you’re going to school and you dunno how to speak English, that is challenging. So I was that kid who would sit in the corner on my own, surrounded by other kids playing in what seems like an alien language. And I remember. Even as I learned English and I grew up even in high school, when the bell rang for lunch, I would rush from my classroom to my locker so I could grab my lunch and disappear. Like I would rather sit and eat and study by myself than sit and talk with people. So yes, I am introverted. I’m not naturally charismatic.

Trang: I’m not a naturally confident speaker. And even when I started my very first business, I remember looking back over the videos that I created for social media and I cringe. ’cause I had no idea what I was doing. my speaking was not very good. It was, it was pretty terrible. But now, yes, like I am a speaking coach and I am a TEDx speaker. How? my secret is this. I’ve simply spent more hours working on my speaking than most people would reasonably expect, and that is something that I would love for everyone to take on because speaking is a skill, and just like any skill, whether it’s riding a bike or playing the piano, anyone can learn. Practice and master that skill. You don’t have to be born good at it. To get good at it. Anyone can master a skill

Caitlin: you said that’s a skill because that’s, is that a common objection that you get? Like people say, oh, I’m not a, I’m not a good speaker. Like I’ve never been a good speaker. Like it is something that you’re born with, like you’re born with brown hair and then that’s it, kind of thing.

Trang: All the time. That’s one of the most common objections or comments that I get of, oh, you know, I’m introverted, or I’m not naturally a good speaker, and I’m like, Hey, I wasn’t either. And that’s why I like to share that story because it shows that we don’t have to be a naturally, naturally charismatic and confident speaker. Anyone can become a great speaker. This isn’t just if you want to be a speaker on stages,

Trang: like if you are a business

Caitlin: I like that. Yeah.

Trang: if you, if you are anyone who opens up your mouth to speak to colleagues, team members, you have meetings for collaborations. You have clients, you need to do marketing on social media.

Trang: You need to make sales. You need to negotiate deals. Even if, even if you’re not in business. Hey, like even if you are a teacher and you, you teach your students, you are a friend who needs to sit down and reassure her friend because she went through something that was difficult. You are a parent and you are raising children like anyone who opens up their mouth to speak to any other human. Is a speaker.

Caitlin: Yeah, so it’s because that’s like what I initially think when I think of speaking as you’re like sitting, like standing on a stage presenting to a lot of people, like running workshops, things like that. But you’re so right. Like anytime we communicate, speaking.

Trang: it’s just wild to think that every time we do open up our mouth how much power every moment of our speaking has, like in one minute, in a one-on-one interaction, we truly could have the power to make that person’s day or to ruin their day.

Caitlin: Yeah. That goes back to what you were talking about at the start about like how. we all have such a, can have such a profound impact

Trang: Exactly

Caitlin: a day to day.

Trang: we, and we could in that one minute, we could inspire someone who goes on and, I dunno, starts a non-for-profit and like changes the world. Like you never know what seed you can plant through your voice. but with that in mind, you, you mentioned before, Caitlin, about rejection, right? When we first learn how to walk, when we first learn how to ride a bike, how many times do we fall over again and again, and this is not any difference with speaking. This is not any difference with starting your business and pivoting careers. There are always going to be moments of. Failure or rejection or people trying to bring us down. And I know you’ve heard this before, like this is nothing new. But I do want to highlight that because I believe it is so part of the journey. And if you’re happy for me to, Caitlin, I’ll, I’ll share a story that really highlights this.

Caitlin: Oh, I love it.

Trang: A, a few years ago, just after COVID Times, I was doing a talk and this talk was both live and being live streamed because people were still hesitant to leave their homes at this time. And I remember that this talk was one I was feeling a bit nervous for.

Trang: I was. Doing this talk to a big company. There were, you know, sports doctors and like surgeons in the audience. And I was like, little me doing this talk Halfway through this talk I’d said something big and then I paused to let the point land.

Trang: And in that moment that I paused someone who was on the live stream who thought they were on mute but weren’t said out loud, oh, what a load of bullshit. I died, I wanted to disappear into the ground and never be seen again. ’cause the whole audience heard it.

Caitlin: Oh my God.

Trang: they, they all heard it. It was very loud. The organizer of the talk who was sitting at the back of the room started running to the front of the room to try and desperately mute this thing. And I panicked. I just wanted to get out of there. So I started to skip through slides. I started to rush through the rest of my talk so I could just leave. And that night, as I drove home, I was sobbing to myself in the car. I thought, I’m, I’m, not cut out for this. You know, maybe speaking isn’t for me. And that night I was so close to hanging out my boots and, and wrapping up my speaking career. But plot twist. Hello? I’m still here. So we do have a happy ending because can you believe that three days later someone else messaged me? They, they emailed me and it was someone who was in the audience that day and they emailed me saying, T Trang, thank you so much for that talk, because what you shared was exactly what I needed to hear. On, on on this day, like I needed this so much and it’s really opened up my eyes, like I’m starting to get inspired to do things differently, and this was such a pivotal moment because. Here I was having someone who’s told me that they loved my talk, and it’s not the first time I’ve received that feedback.

Trang: Like throughout the years of coaching, people have told me that I’ve changed their life or, you know, Trang. If it weren’t for you, I, I wouldn’t be here now. You know, working with you has been one of the best decisions I’ve ever made. I, I’ve received this feedback and yet. Three days earlier, there was someone in the audience who thought that my talk and my content was bs. So what this highlighted to me was, you’re going to get judged anyway. Like no matter how good you are, you could literally be changing people’s lives

Trang: and you’ll still have someone,

Caitlin: person.

Trang: yeah, you’ll still have someone who doesn’t agree. You’re still going to have a hater. But for every person who judges you, another is going to be inspired by you, if not

Trang: another 10.

Caitlin: Yes. Yeah,

Trang: And the hater, they’re not going to give you anything. Like you said this before, Caitlyn, the hater, they’re not going to ever pay you. They’re not going to ever fund your next holiday or support you. So really, they are irrelevant. Yeah. But

Trang: the 10 people for that one hater who you have the potential to inspire to change their life, to touch in a positive way, doesn’t that just make it completely worth it?

Trang: Like

Trang: who, who, who cares about that one hater anymore?

Caitlin: Exactly. Very irrelevant. And they’re probably like quite, you know, deep down jealous that you are like living your best life and they’re like stuck in a shitty career that they don’t like.

Trang: Yeah. Yeah. And, and that really

Trang: reminds me of it is It is, but it’s going to happen, you know,

Trang: like Brene Brown says it so well, I’m, I’m sure you are familiar. it’s been quoted from, an original source, but the man in the arena quote where it said, unless you are in the arena covered in blood, sweat, and tears, none of the spectators opinions matter. Like unless you’re in

Trang: the arena, your opinion is invalid.

Caitlin: And that’s actually something that’s gotten me through, like, thinking about that quote, like when I think about like imagine, yeah, like my colleagues or people who I went to uni with, like kind of sharing my posts or like, you know, whatever. Like little fantasy I have in my head. I think, well, yeah, they’re not doing what I’m doing.

Caitlin: Like they’re not in the, the arena they’re not doing. Yeah. So I better keep on going.

Trang: Exactly. And like one final thing on this, because this really helped me overcome this rejection. Like I said, that night I drove home, I was sobbing. I got home, my partner was at home. My partner at the time was at home and he was like, how was the talk? And I’m like, it was fine. It was great. As I like run past him on the verge of tears, I like shut the door. And I like burst into tears when I was by myself. but what I did that night was really revolutionary because like I said, I’m still here now. So something did change and when I went into that room, I, I took out my journal, or I started journaling. I started to ask myself questions. I started to process what had just happened and. I was reminded as I was journaling of this one story that my speaking coach had told me. So my very first speaking coach was Vinh Giang. some of you may, be familiar with him. He’s, he’s a fantastic speaking coach. he’s one of the best speakers in the world, and he told me about. At the time that he had done a talk, it was a big talk, a room of thousands of people, and he’d gotten a standing ovation, like it was that good.

Trang: The whole auditorium got up onto their feet and were giving him a standing ovation. And yet afterwards during the meet and greet where the line curled around and there were all these people lining up to meet him and congratulate him and, and talk to him and ask questions. There was one person in the meet and greet line who’d lined up. Waited for however long they needed to wait only to get to him and be like, thank you for wasting my time. That was not what I wanted. And they just stormed off after that. So Vin had told me this story prior, and I remember that story as I was journaling because. That felt like what I’d been through.

Trang: Like I’d

Trang: had someone who really didn’t like my talk and it just felt like I’d been shot, and it was just so awful. I felt humiliated. But what that made me realize was, hey, you could have a whole auditorium of people standing up and clapping for you, and you’re still going to have someone who, who gives you hate. So what that says is. It’s not invalidating your worth, it’s, it’s not saying to you that you are not good enough. It’s actually the opposite because in order for you to even get hate in the first place,

Trang: in order for you to have had a standing ovation in the first place, you’ve already made it. You’ve already made it for you to even get the hate in the first place, versus if you weren’t speaking, if you weren’t speaking to big crowds, if you weren’t putting yourself out there, then you wouldn’t get the hate.

Trang: But that means you haven’t made it.

Trang: So this

Trang: feedback of, oh my gosh, maybe I’m not good enough. Maybe this is not for me. It actually meant the opposite than what I thought. It didn’t mean that I wasn’t good enough. It meant that I was doing

Trang: the

Caitlin: were good enough.

Trang: and I should keep doing it.

Caitlin: Nice. Oh, I’m so glad that you did that journaling and you were able to process that event. Just imagining you like walking outta the room, being like, yep, I’m done. I’m like,

Trang: I actually was like, by the end of that journaling session, I felt a complete shift and I’m like, I’m ready for more. Like bring it on. It was wild how quickly things had shifted.

Caitlin: it’s incredible. but yeah, it’s, wow. What, what’s wild ride? Hey, like. To put up like with that stuff, you know, health professional, like it’s, well, maybe it would’ve depending, but it’s, yeah,

Trang: Yeah,

Caitlin: doing really brave, big, brave things

Trang: we are. We are.

Caitlin: really cool. I love, like everything you’ve said, I’ve just been like nodding along in agreement.

Caitlin: I’m like, oh my gosh, it’s been incredible for me to listen to you. I’m like, it really definitely help has helped me and really nourished something in me. but what would you tell listeners if maybe they are like either worried? I don’t even are worried about what other people think, but like more so if they are.

Caitlin: Thinking about something and then there is that like secret little wish. There’s that like heart is telling them to do something else, but they’re deeply, deeply afraid. What would you say to them?

Trang: I would say, listen. You have to listen because at the start, it’s like this tiny little voice or this tiny little niggle that there’s more for you and that you are meant to create this new path for yourself, and it’s very easy to ignore it at the start.

Caitlin: Hmm.

Trang: I tried to ignore it at the start because it was too scary.

Trang: It would take too much work. It would take too much time. I might not, it might not even work out, but only one thing happens when you ignore something that

Trang: is true. I. It’s not going to go away, it’s going to persist.

Trang: And the longer it persists, the greater it becomes, the louder it becomes, the more heavy it becomes. So I, I, I joke, but also I’m not joking about my quarter life crisis because by the end of it. It was so loud that it was affecting my day to day. Like I was waking up feeling quite apathetic about going into work. I was like, what’s the point of all of this? You know, this is not what I want to be doing.

Trang: And I’ve had Sunday night blues, but every single night of the week, like it just didn’t feel good. And I’ve had the exact same lesson given to me time and time again in other areas of life as well, like as an example that I think a lot of people would resonate with in my relationship.

Caitlin: Yeah.

Trang: When there’s something that’s not quite right and you try to just bury your head in the sand and ignore it, it’s not going to go away. It only

Trang: gets bigger. it.

Trang: only become, yeah, it only becomes more obvious. So going back to this calling for more, I, I, I really say listen, because it’s not going away and it’s not getting any easier. The longer that you wait to pursue that new path.

Caitlin: No, it doesn’t. Yeah, it doesn’t get any quieter. It just, it gets louder and louder and

Trang: Exactly.

Caitlin: am, I’m really pleased that you say, say that because I, I’m sure I know, like I’m a hundred percent sure I know that there is someone who will be listening who is at that stage now where they’re like, do I, do I take the leap?

Caitlin: Like do I listen or not? Listen, it’s scary to listen to. Yeah. Challenge everything that you know. Professionally, but also personally, it’s a huge, huge thing. And so, oh, I’m so glad that we’ve had this talk. thank you so, so much for coming on. Is there anything that you, that’s come up, like as we’ve been talking, that you wish I would’ve asked you about or that you wanna say?

Caitlin: This is kind of related to what we’ve been talking about. But more the, the message that I love to share as, as a speaking coach, as a speaker. Like when we think of leaders who’ve changed history like Malala Yusaf Sai, or Mother Teresa or Martin Luther King Jr. These leaders, they haven’t changed the world because they were of the most academic, nor because they were the most hardworking or because they sat down and studied a 10 step course on leadership. They. Didn’t change the world because of any of those things. They changed the world because they had a vision. They had a vision that they felt so strongly about that they lent into their courage, into overcoming any, any fear, and they used their voice to speak up. They spoke up with so much conviction with raw emotion and depth, and because of that. They changed the world. I, I, I believe that our voice is so powerful. So I really encourage each of you to lean into your visions. Whatever your vision is, wherever that takes you, lean into it because. We have this one life. You know, what is there to

Caitlin: We do.

Trang: there? There’s nothing to lose. There’s only, there’s only things to be lost every day that we wait on our dreams.

Trang: So you go out there, you create that vision, you create that vision. You speak up using your voice and see what you can create. Because when you do that, only one thing can happen. You’ll create your extraordinary life.

Caitlin: Mm-hmm. I wondering what if we wanna. I an extraordinary life and do all of that. But yeah, it takes courage. I, that’s so incredible. how to take it a slightly more something a little bit more, lighter. I always ask my guests three questions.

Caitlin: I call them the rapid fire questions. Now, Trang, what is your favorite film?

Trang: Titanic, Uhhuh.

Caitlin: I’ve been seeing like a lot of Titanic recently randomly like ads and stuff. I don’t that it’s been on a ads or like even on Facebook. I don’t know why that is. Is there an anniversary or something coming up of it?

Trang: I don’t know actually, so I

Trang: can’t say, but I should. I should give the slight backstory to why Titanic’s my favorite

Caitlin: yeah, tell me.

Trang: I first watched it when I was still in high school. And do you remember back in the day when like Netflix and all those streaming platforms weren’t a thing yet? If you wanted to watch a movie, you needed to go down to the

Trang: video store and rent a movie.

Trang: So I’d never watched Titan before and I actually didn’t know the. Ending of the movie, so I got to watch it on channel nine or whatever it was with ads every 15 minutes, and I got to have the most raw experience of. What was about to go down and because I didn’t have any spoilers, it was the most intense ride of a movie, like as if the, the ship sinking wasn’t already enough of a shock.

Trang: But when like, Jack, lets go and he like floats down and Rose was like, come back, come back. I’m like, on the couch, just bawling my eyes out and it was just the most intense ride I’d ever been on. For such a, a movie. ’cause I didn’t know what was to come. And I was such a young girl. I was a romantic. I was like, oh my God, they’re gonna live happily ever after.

Trang: But they did not. And that was quite a rude awakening. But I loved it for the, the journey that it took me on.

Caitlin: It again. It’s been quite while since I’ve watched it, but yeah, I, I definitely.

Trang: Oh yeah. I think we all did.

Caitlin: What about, a concert that you’ll never forget?

Trang: Can I expand the question and say

Trang: a music festival.

Caitlin: Oh, yeah, yeah, please.

Trang: Because I’m, I’m very much a music festival gal.

Trang: Last year I went to Tomorrowland, and Tomorrowland is

Trang: one of the biggest EDM music festivals

Caitlin: Yeah, it is.

Trang: like 200,000 people. 16 stages in Belgium. So I got to like have my Euro summer, go to Tomorrowland,

Trang: have the most ratchet three days of my life where I slept a total of, I dunno, five hours over three days or something.

Trang: Like, it was wild. It was pretty intense. I don’t think I’d wanna do that again, because it took me a whole week just to feel like myself again after that. But, oh my gosh, like I love being in a mosh pit. I love having music. All around me like the visual audio experience is just, it takes you to a whole different world.

Trang: So epic

Caitlin: so Epic. wow, that would’ve been so, so epic. I, yeah, there’s so many questions there, but maybe for another.

Trang: deal. Good deal.

Caitlin: what about like, what’s a, I always struggle, like wording this question, what’s like an absurd fact about you or something really quirky that people know about you

Trang: That people dunno about me

Caitlin: or, yeah, like maybe the only the people closest to you know about you. Yeah.

Trang: You know what just came to mind? This, this, this makes me laugh because my friends only recently found out about this and they were shook. The thing that I do that is very quirky, that is very absurd, is. I don’t use anything proper to take off my makeup.

Trang: After a long day. I actually use toilet paper as makeup remover because I’m telling you it works. A treat like that stuff is. Sturdy. It doesn’t irritate my face. It’s not harsh on my face, obviously it is. Gotta be very sterile. so I have just been using toilet paper for years and years now as a makeup remover device.

Trang: and yeah, people are like, Trang, I think you need to just grow up and maybe get some proper makeup remover. And I’m like, no, I’m pretty happy with toilet paper. Thanks.

Caitlin: Just toilet paper.

Trang: Oh, the, I use, I use either makeup remover or Yeah, like cleanser or whatever, but I use it. Or using toilet paper,

Caitlin: So I guess absorbent and it’s like got little bump depending what toilet paper you have. It’s got little bumpy things in it, so it’s like maybe you’re onto something.

Trang: I’m telling you, because this is like, and it’s fast and efficient ’cause you’ve got the

Trang: whole roll versus. Yeah, Versus those little like makeup pa remover pads where I just like use one and then have to use another another, and I’m like, I, I’ve tried and tested a few different, a few different, materials and I’m telling you, toilet papers the go.

Caitlin: Yeah, I’m just imagining like a cool little collaboration between you and like who gives a crap?

Trang: Yeah. Like expanding their business, new horizons, like have you ever considered makeup removal?

Caitlin: Oh, that’s so fun. Oh, well thank you so much for coming on the podcast. this has been such a treat. how can people get in contact with you or, yeah, tell me everything.

Trang: For sure. I do live online so you can

Trang: find me on most platforms. Instagram is where I spend my most time. So my Instagram handle is trang Nova, which is TRAN, underscore, NOVA. Otherwise, LinkedIn is Trang Nova. My website is trang nova.com. So yeah, any of those

Trang: platforms, and you’ll be able to find the rest from there.

Caitlin: Yeah. Beautiful. Thank you so much. yeah, Instagram is, my one too. Do you post lots on LinkedIn? Like are you, do you like LinkedIn?

Trang: I actually have really gone on around LinkedIn in just the last five months, and I’m such a fan, and maybe we can talk more about this after as well. Like I’ve been

Trang: telling all of my clients, even the ones who think it’s not relevant, I’m like. Get around LinkedIn because it’s where people go if they want to network or learn versus Instagram.

Trang: It’s like people can network and learn, but it’s such an entertainment, mind numbing platform that

Trang: people go on to. Right. So I found in

Trang: terms of business, in terms of making connections, LinkedIn to be way more of a hotspot than Instagram.

Caitlin: Good. Yeah, that was just like a very personal, like, kind of me oriented question there, but I’d like to hear that. but yeah, no, thank you so much again for coming on. it’s been a real treat having you.

Trang: Caitlin, thank you so much for having me. I’ve, I’ve loved this conversation and I can’t wait for it to go out into the wild for people

Trang: to hear.

Caitlin: Thank you so much.

Caitlin: All right. That’s the end of another episode. Thank you so much for tuning into Healers with Hustles. If you’ve enjoyed today’s episode, will you do me a tiny favor and subscribe to the show? Just tap the subscribe button on your favorite podcast platform, and you’ll be the first to know as soon as the new episode drops.

Caitlin: Thanks so much for listening. Okay, for now.