Social worker to gin distiller: Conversation with Wiradjuri woman Clair Ryder

Caitlin: Today I have the absolute pleasure of speaking with Claire, a Wiradjuri woman living and working on Bindal country in Queensland, Australia. Claire owns and manages the first and only distillery in Australia, 100 percent owned and managed by First Nations women. Welcome, Claire. Thank you so much for joining me on the podcast. I am super excited to interview you today. Can you start off by telling me, a little bit about your story and what led you to, having an amazing distillery company.

Clair: I’m a Wiradjuri woman born down in New South Wales, but because my father’s in the military, I’ve moved all over Australia, and I currently have the absolute pleasure and honor of living on Bindal country.

Clair: So to me, I have had a strong passion for working with community and supporting community. And that led me to getting degrees in psychology and social work. So I got my bachelor of arts in human services and, and psychology moved on and did my master’s of social work. And it was when I was working in this field that I opened my big fat mouth.

Clair: So I was looking for a Christmas gift for my mother. And because we’re First Nations people, it’s really special when I can get. A First Nations gift for her and, you know, try and support community that way. 

Caitlin: Yes. 

Clair: And my mother loves gin. And I saw all of these beautiful bottles and some had the most amazing Indigenous prints.

Clair: And I read the bottle and it had all the language about the Bush Tucker, about culture. And I went, wow, this must be an absolutely incredible First Nations business. 

Clair: Yes. 

Clair: But then I googled it. And unfortunately, it was not. Not only was it not owned and managed by First Nations people, it didn’t actually engage with the community at all.

Clair: There was no consultation. And the more I did research, the more I found out that that’s actually pretty common. People do this thing called blackwashing, where they make a product look Indigenous,

Caitlin: Yeah.

Clair: But they don’t actually have Indigenous perspectives involved, and it’s something that really upsets a lot of communities, because the botanicals often aren’t collected in ethical ways, and because you’re not talking to the people, you don’t know what’s appropriate to use and what’s not.

Clair: An example of where this really went badly is that down south there was a distillery who used a really sacred plant. And this is sort of Western Australia, Southwestern Australia way. They chose a plant that they thought, Oh, this is special to the community. This will sell out generally well. And they use special flowers in their gin, but these sacred flowers are really important to the community because in that region, it’s believed that when elders and important people pass on, you know, those that you love and are special to you, that their souls sort of, you know, rest in the flowers and it’s part of the gateway process of how they move on.

Clair: And so seeing that the company had come along and taken those precious flowers, you know, it’s kind of like stealing the souls of your loved ones and turning it into gin. Things like that can be avoided so easily if you just talk to community. As a social worker, I spent so much time advocating for people.

Clair: I thought, well, this is something that’s so easy to fix. It’s not hard to sit down and have a yarn. So I spoke to a couple of different people in the industry and the general feedback I was given was that it wasn’t financially viable and was not worth the effort to run an ethical and sustainable business in that sense.

Clair: So I was basically told, yes, we could do all those things, but why would we bother? And so that was really quite hurtful to me and being the sort of person I am, I went and had a whinge to my aunties. And said, oh, this is terrible. They’re doing all of this and they went, yeah, we know that’s pretty common.

Clair: That’s just the way it is. And social workers are always taught to fight. You know, that’s what we’re here for. 

Caitlin: Absolutely. Yes. It’s one of the amazing qualities about social workers.

Clair: Look, it’s what we’re trained to do. It’s what we’re good at. And I think, you don’t become a social worker unless you’ve got that annoying trait where you’re ready to dig your heels in and fight.

Clair: So, yeah, I was complaining that this is wrong. This isn’t how it should be. And my aunties basically smacked me over the head and said, well, if you’ve got an issue with it, do it yourself. If you think that it’s possible to run this ethically, Prove ’em wrong, do it. And so that’s sort of how I still work part-time as a social worker.

Clair: I work two days a week, in critical care, helping people going through really rough times. But I spend the rest of my time working on building a distillery, partially to prove a point out of stubbornness and show you can be ethical, you can do things the right way, but also so we can showcase our really awesome, unique botanicals that we have here in Australia.

Clair: Because when you think of native botanicals. 

Caitlin: I was just about to agree with you, what better, like, First Nations people to be able to, display botanicals and be able to educate it’s a wonderful thing.

Clair: And, you know, we do have some distilleries out there that are Indigenous and that’s amazing.

Clair: And I’m, I look to all of, you know, my brothers and sisters and go, what they’re doing is incredible. But In all of my research, I found that. Yeah, there are some Indigenous distilleries and there are some distilleries that have Indigenous staff, but what really shocked me is that there were no distilleries in Australia.

Clair: Zero. That were 100 percent owned and managed by First Nations women. 

Caitlin: Wow. Yep.

Clair: And that really shocked me because when you think about Bush Tucker and when you’re talking about gin, you know, you’re focusing on the botanicals and the plants that you’re putting in it, it’s the women who traditionally hold that knowledge about the bush tucker and go, you know, this is what it is, this is why it’s important, this is how we gather it and use it and how we work in harmony with nature.

Clair: So it really surprised me that despite the fact that in most of our communities, that’s where the knowledge is held, the power had really been stripped from them in this industry. Right. 

Caitlin: Yeah. Wow. And you’re taking back that, but I don’t know about you, but I find that anger is such a powerful thing to get things done or to like push, through, it just really helps the creation process.

Caitlin: Yeah, it puts a fire in your belly and wow, I’m so excited for you that you’re doing this. 

Clair: Thank you. And look, I think you’ve hit on a really important thing there. And you know, a lot of people go off emotions like anger and frustration.

Clair: They’re bad emotions. They’re evil emotions that people shouldn’t feel, but people in the healing sector know that all emotions have strength and have power and they can be used for good or evil. And I think what really sealed the deal for me was that. I’ve got no background in distilling or any of that sort of stuff.

Clair: So I went down to Adelaide University and studied a course in distilling. So I could learn how to do it. And when I showed up there, you know, I was met with so much sexism and racism. And I’ve done lots of different studies for this. And on one of the courses I went to. I sat down and I was met with such aggression from a group of men who came over at one of the courses and were like, Hey, you don’t belong here.

Clair: You should leave before class starts. What are you doing here? And I was really surprised because I hadn’t encountered that, you know, as a social worker and I went, Oh, Look, I know I’m First Nations. They went, what? You’re First Nations? We had issues with you because you were a woman. Now we know you’re black too.

Clair: So, it’s an industry where there are some amazing people and some really supportive people but it’s also very much it’s an old men’s club, basically. Don’t like outsiders. And look, the industry is a challenging place. The tax alone makes me want to cry. The alcohol tax is over a hundred dollars per liter.

Clair: So it’s an expensive thing to get into and you have to get local state and federal approval. So people who have, you know, decided to do this, they’re putting a lot of money in. So some of them are, Really defensive and they see anyone else as a threat, which is unfortunate because that’s not what I’m here for.

Clair: And I’m so small scale, I’m not going to be a threat to anyone, but they’re just so defensive. But the more people tell me to get out and bugger off and that I don’t belong here and don’t deserve to be here, the more I take that energy and sink my heels in and go, no, the less you want me, the more I’ll stay.

Caitlin: That’s it. Absolutely. And to, yeah, show them what’s possible and I should imagine you have your community behind you and like all of your, aunties and brothers and sisters and everyone. Yeah.

Clair: So when I sort of decided that this is what I wanted to do, I’ve been talking to, various elders and TOs, in the Vindal community, and that all sort of gone, yeah, that’s a good idea.

Clair: But the best way to do it, if you want to do it properly is come and stand before the. [there seems to be a glitch?] Commission because there’s controversy when you look at alcohol and First Nations people, I’ll touch on that later on, but, you know, it’s a sensitive topic that has to be approached with care. 

Caitlin: Yes. 

Clair: So I went in, stood before them.

Clair: I was nervous as anything, felt like a school kid again, and gave my pitch and explained, you know, this is what I want to do. This is why I want to do it. I want to have, you know, a distillery that’s driven by community and puts community first. And one of my goals is to have a portion of all the profits go back to community and really have it be, you know, guided by the elders and driven for the purpose of community.

Clair: And they all sort of turned and looked to, you know, the oldest person in the room. And, you know, he was this. Old bloke and he’d looked very serious the entire time. I’ve never met this gentleman before. And he looked at me in a really stern voice said, do you know what I think of people like you and a part of me died and I froze inside and I’m thinking I’m about to get thrown out of the room.

Clair: Everyone’s silent and just staring at him. And after a minute he went, I think it’s really inspirational that you’re going to make a difference. I nearly hit the floor. I thought he was going to throw me out.

Caitlin: Oh, That must have just like been the most, yeah, comforting, but gave, you that strength that you’re onto something.

Clair: Absolutely. And they have all been fabulous. They all kind of went, well, here are people we know who deal with this and deal with that. And you know, the local rangers group are fantastic. We’ve had a really good, yarn about, you know, they make sure that they take care of the environment and they’re looking at what they can grow for me because, with botanicals, it sounds really good at first when you say it’s wild harvested, but one of the issues that comes up again and again is how is it wild harvested?

Clair: There are big companies that will go, all right, we wild harvest our Davidson plums, but what they actually do is they go on country and they just strip it and they don’t leave enough for the plants to receive. They don’t leave enough for the local people they don’t leave enough for the animals. And it’s really harmful.

Clair: So I’ve spent a lot of time sourcing. groups that work with the blessings of the land owners of the Indigenous people who own the land and that they harvest in an ethical and sustainable way. I do a lot of harvesting myself but whatever I can’t get, I make sure it’s collected in an appropriate way and where possible I’m trying to hook up with different people who can help by actually farming and farming sounds really imposing and big, but we only use small amounts of botanicals.

Clair: So farming can be as simple as getting people to grow things in pots. There’s a botanical that I really want to use, called Atherton raspberry or native raspberry. And the main supplier of it sells it only freeze dried and they sell it for almost 400 a kilo. 

Caitlin: Oh, wow. 

Clair: So. The additional birthday present that all of my friends have gotten is happy birthday.

Clair: Here’s your gift. Also, here’s a small potted raspberry. I will buy the fruit back off you. And so a lot of it’s very much community driven in that sense as well. 

Caitlin: That’s so lovely that you have that. But then you’ve also got this vision because I was really curious about the botanicals and like your favorite botanicals tell me all about that.

Caitlin: Really keen to hear. 

Clair: So for me, there are some botanicals that everyone knows because you know, when you think of native bush tucker, you’ve got things like your lemon myrtle, which everyone uses. And it’s fabulous. I use it as well. But there are hundreds and hundreds of plants that taste delicious.

Clair: But I never used. And for whatever reason, most people feel this little comfort zone of here are the six plants we’re willing to use. I’m working with community and going, let’s go beyond that. Now, that means that there are lots of steep learning curves. So we have a gin, that’s Joyful Cockatiel Gin and it’s made using Grevillea flowers and Mimosa flowers.

Clair: And that’s what I call my learning curve gin because it was a very big learning moment for me.

. 

Caitlin: Oh. Was it? Tell me. 

Clair: So Mimosa flowers, it’s another name for a type of Acacia or Wattle. Now both Grevillea And this type of wattle flower, we use them out bush to make cordial to flavour water to make it taste nicer. So the theory was let’s just make a hard cordial.

Clair: So I got, a friend to go and pick some flowers and send them and they all got sent to me, put them in the pot, was boiling them up, made a little bit to test because you always make small batches because you never know what it’s actually going to taste like until you’ve done it. And I’m there pouring it all into a bottle and I get a panicked call from my auntie going, Do not drink that gin.

Clair: Why? What happened? So she had sent her boys and told them, go pick some flowers, we’ll send them down to your cousin. And they’d gotten a bit lazy. And instead of just picking the flowers, they’d grabbed handfuls of leaves as well and thrown it in. And I’d gone, well, Arnie said this was safe, I’ll throw it in, let’s find out.

Clair: The flowers, delicious and safe. The leaves, highly psychotropic.

Clair: So that batch had to get poured down the drain, before we created a very interesting experience. I kind of went, well, just so I know, so I know how to dispose of this, how bad is it? And she said, I’ll put you on to uncle. And I had a chat to one of my uncles. And he said, look, when he was younger, Like, we all lie to the kids.

Clair: We say, don’t eat the leaves, they’ll give you bad diarrhoea. And so the kids avoid them. When he found out what the truth was, he grabbed a pile, boiled them up into tea when he was younger, had a drink. He was in Townsville, he woke up in Bowen, three days later, said he must have walked there because he didn’t have his car keys, too late his wallet.

Clair: I don’t know what happened. So it depends on the time of year, how much oil and what sort of things are in the leaves. But the general rule of thumb is no leaves. So now when I make that gin, I’m so meticulous. They’re sorting very carefully through each flower. And I’ve got this tiny little set of micro scales, which is as it turns out, if you buy scales that measure down to 0.

Clair: 01 grammes or smaller, people start questioning what you’re making.

Caitlin: Yeah. I bet. 

Clair: I’ve had to assure people, I’m not a drug dealer, I’m making alcohol, and I sit there very meticulously with a pair of little tweezers, taking all the flowers out from the leaves, weighing them very carefully, making sure that there can be no contamination.

Caitlin: No contaminants. Wow, it just struck me like how much love and care that you put into your gin and so much passion as well. 

Clair: I really do love what I do and for me, it’s, it’s a really exciting process and as dreadfully nerdy as it sounds, every time I learn about a new plant, for me, it’s like unlocking a new level in a video game, I go, oh, I can do this, I can do that.

Clair: It also means that I get to share things with people that they wouldn’t normally have. So most people have never tried mimosa blossom, even though we drink it as cordial outbush. And for me, by doing this, it means that I can actually show people and go, Hey, here’s a really awesome plant you walk past every single day.

Clair: And it’s amazing. And it tastes delicious. And a great example of that is when you have a look at even down our local park, you have lots of different trees that just look like gum trees and people don’t give a second thought to me when I go down there. I see a candy store because you have these gum leaves in all these different flavours.

Clair: Like you’ve got your lemon myrtle that tastes like lemon. You get peppermint gum, which tastes like peppermint, you get ones that taste like cinnamon and licorice and strawberry. And the more that I can sort of get these together, the more I can teach people about them. Because one thing I did find out is that if you go up to a total stranger and go, Hey, want to try these weird berries?

Clair: You’ve never heard of them before. Promise they’re delicious. People will not be interested. And in my old job, I used to work with my students and we’d make bush tucker jam and people would be really hesitant. Oh, I’ve never heard of that plant before. I don’t want to go near that. What if it’s sus? If you put it in alcohol, people ask no questions.

Caitlin: What do you make of that? 

Clair: I think that they’re just willing to be more daring. And, you know, it puts it in a medium that people are comfortable experimenting in. I mean, good heavens, you know, people still buy, you know, alcohol that’s got worms in it and, you know, toes in it and weird stuff like that. So they’re willing to go, sure, I’ve never heard of this berry.

Clair: Let’s give it a crack. 

Caitlin: Let’s go for it. 

Clair: We’re the first and currently only company that commercially uses mimosa, australian mimosa, which is wild to me because it is such a delicious plant. It tastes like orange, sort of a weird hybrid between orange and mandarin. So we were doing a tasting actually yesterday, cause we’re preparing to go down South to launch a new gin at a pub in Canberra and they were doing a tasting down there and one of the young girls described our mimosa gin as being like fancy Fanta.

Caitlin: Fancy Fanta. That’s great copy as well. I hope you’re writing down these things that people are saying to use in your product description. 

Clair: And that’s obviously how we get the descriptions of how we describe things. Because how on earth do you say, Oh, it tastes like Grevillea and Mimosa flower.

Clair: And people go, I don’t know what. Either of those things taste like. 

Caitlin: Yes. You’re translating for them.

Clair: And that is a big challenge. And when you’re having a look at the flavours, you also have to have a look at the science, which I feel so bad for the chemistry tutor I got. I didn’t study, like, chemistry in high school.

Clair: For me, I’m an English girl. I love my English. I love my drama.

Caitlin: Yes.

Clair: If it involved numbers, I wasn’t interested. But now I’ve had to learn chemistry. And so I remember my poor chemistry tutor coming over. He taught one of my sisters, who, both my sisters are very academic people, and very good with their maths and chemistry.

Clair: I’m not. So he pulled out his book and he’s like, right, we’re just going to do a little warm up activity. So if you can take this law and combine it with this law from there, you’ll get this. Don’t forget, you’ve got the hydro theory. Once you apply thermodynamics, that’ll give you the first set of moles, and that will give us our starting point for the question.

Clair: And as he’s saying all these words that mean nothing to me, I’m just staring at him. I said, what are moles? Which is the chemistry equivalent of going, what’s a centimetre? Just watch as he died inside and packed his book away. And I think I’ve got some primary school books in the car, but he was fabulous.

Clair: He took me from the very basics. And it means that basically. When you’re tasting something when you’re tasting a fresh ingredient, the flavour that you get come from these magical science things called congeners, which are all of these different chemicals that contribute an overall flavour. But when you’re distilling, you’re putting it in alcohol and heat that breaks it down and separates it, which means that you get potentially different flavours.

Clair: So as I’ve discovered very, very recently and excitingly, names of lemongrass. When you chew on it raw, it tastes like lemon. But when you cook it, it has actually several of the same chemicals that roses do. And so that means when you cook your lemongrass, you get a rose flavour. Sometimes you get good outcomes.

Clair: Sometimes you have things like a freezer full of emu berries that taste fine when you eat them raw and turn into absolute disgusting messes when you cook them. So you have your wins and you have your losses and I have vowed I will find a way to use them, but I have never succeeded with Amy Berry. 

Caitlin: I’m just imagining, what your, kitchen must look like sometimes with, trying different things.

Clair: It’s totally chaotic. It’s gotten to the point in which I have my own dedicated freezer and I’m actually so incredibly fortunate because, prior to starting this, I was saving up a home deposit and I’ve been living with my parents who are without a doubt the most patient understanding people on the face of the planet.

Clair: I came to them and went, so you’ve supported me through uni, watched as I’ve gotten my base degrees and my master’s, you’ve watched as I finally got a job that pays really well. And you’re very proud of me for that. I would like to leave that job and start a distillery using my savings for my house, meaning you’re not getting rid of me anytime soon.

Clair: Also, I know nothing about distilling, and I don’t know if this will ever make money. And they looked at me and went, okay, if that’s like you want to do. We’ll do that. And so dad had a little music room at the front. He ripped down one wall, doubled its size, and helped build a distillery. Mum and dad put up wallpaper without getting divorced, although that part was a close call.

 And I’ve continued to make things difficult for them, like When you’re making alcohol, you have to have a cooling system and sort of the two standard ways of doing that is you either use like a glycol chiller, which uses, basically lots of products that eventually you have to try and dispose of safely, which is not great.

Clair: Cause you’ve got all this chemical waste or a lot of places just. Dump the water out onto the garden slash down the drain, and that’s thousands of litres of water. And when I’m trying to do something that’s an ethical business, that hurts my heart. So instead what we’ve got is we’ve got two of these IBCs, which is the fancy name given, to giant big buckets that they ship chemicals in.

Clair: So we’ve got two empty ones of those, scrub them out, one’s filled with water, one’s empty, and we use a pond pump, and the water goes from one into the other, and by the time one’s empty and the other’s full, it’s cool enough that we go and manually grab the pipes, swap them over, and we’ve got solar on the roof that powers that, so we’ve got zero water waste, all powered by solar as much as possible, um, and all of these little bits and pieces that we’ve changed to make it better.

Caitlin: Yeah. Like. Innovative and inventive and creative it’s incredible. But you’ve really hit on something that. Is a bit of a pain point or something that’s a bit conflicting having like a profession and yeah, I’m earning money and I’m studied for so long and now I’m in this career and yes, it’s fantastic.

Caitlin: But then it’s like, Oh, I actually have this little creative itch. I want to create something. I see there’s a gap in the world that I want to make better. I don’t know what your experience has been, but a lot of people might not get it or they might think like, what are you doing?

Caitlin: And then obviously it comes out of a place of protection and they want the best for you, but it can be a bit scary in that initial part where you’re transitioning or yeah, changing.

Clair: It’s terrifying. A lot of people thought I was having an early midlife crisis and just going, what are you doing? You know, there’s, there’s something wrong with you, you know, do you need to see a counsellor yourself?

Clair: Do you need to go and see another social worker since you’re the social worker? And people were genuinely very worried because, you know, Going from a good income to spending my savings and, you know, having that all go out the window and hand on heart, I couldn’t tell people, will this work? Will it fail?

Clair: You know, legally in Australia, you can’t distill at home for fun. So you, you can make home brew, but you legally can’t make your own spirit. And so unless I drop, you know, 30 grand in getting state, local, and federal approval. I can’t even touch the alcohol to see if I’m good at it. So there was, I’m there with fair chances going, what if I pay all of this money, quit my job, do all of this and find out I’m really bad at making alcohol.

Caitlin: That’s a huge thing to carry and hold. How have you been able to get through and cope with all of that? Like there’s conflicting thoughts.

Clair: It’s, it’s really terrifying. And for me, the money part was the biggest fear, watching my bank go down and seeing all my savings disappear. It did lead to plenty of sleepless nights and going, I really hope.

Clair: People like my product. And at this point in time, you know, we’re still not making profit. We’re still in the hole, but we’re climbing out each day. The way that I dealt with it basically was if you’re going to make a big decision like this, you have to have a big why, why are you doing this? And for me, I was driven and supported by community.

Clair: The more I looked at what some other distilleries had done in the past and we’re still doing, I went, this is wrong. I feel in my heart. What they’re doing is wrong. And as a social worker, you know, I became a social worker to fight, to change the world, to be a better place. And my logic was that, look, I will never be the biggest distillery.

Clair: I will never make the most money, but if I can be successful enough. To inconvenience the big guys so that they go, okay, well, if people are signing with her over us, because we’re not doing ethical things, maybe we will then go and do the tiny ethical things that she was hoping for. Maybe we’ll talk to community.

Clair: Maybe we’ll actually protect our environment. And my hope is that, you know, I can become big enough to annoy them to make the big changes to protect our community, protect our people, protect our environment and do what’s decent. Yeah, it’s a huge why. And that’s it. You do need a huge why. Because otherwise, when you’re sitting at night going, Why am I doing this?

Clair: If you don’t have that answer, you’re not going to make it. So you need to have that and you need to have your support network and my community were so amazing every step of the way they’re going, yeah, we agree what’s happening is wrong. And since talking to people and going, will you please change what you’re doing doesn’t work, this is going to be, you know, the only other option we’ve got.

Clair: And my family were, as I said, so amazingly patient. I mean, I’ll be honest, if the tables were turned, If I had a kid who went, hi, I want to quit everything now and start something that. I may be terrible at and risk everything. I think I’d be terrified. So I’m in awe of how they have handled this. But yeah, it’s, it’s that why, it’s that why that drives me every day.

Clair: You know, when you have bad days, when a batch turns sour, when you get chemical burns because you’ve discovered that distilling chilli creates basically chilli gas, you need to have a reason to keep going.

Caitlin: Yeah. It’d be so lovely to, well, you could write a book about this, that would be so fascinating, about all your learnings, and I think it would be such a valuable thing to write down for yourself, but then also to, pass on that knowledge.

Clair: And one of the things I’m actually doing on that topic is I’m, I’m keeping really detailed notes about the botanicals and how they work when you distill them. Because the more traditional botanicals have been so well studied, you basically get a cheat code to distill them, which is great when I’m using the non native botanicals, because I can look and go, ah, juniper, if you put it at this temperature with this amount of alcohol, it comes out delicious.

Clair: No one’s done that sort of study on Most of our botanicals, you know, most of our bush tucker. And so I had no clue at all, like, when I threw the lemongrass in, I’m going, great, I’m going to get lemon. No clue at all. It comes out rose. And so by trying to keep really detailed notes of this, my hope is that, look, if anyone else wants to start a distillery, if I can save them some of the pain, some of the suffering, some of the waste, that would be fabulous.

Clair: And so, I’ve always said to people, you know, if this is something you’re excited to do, be aware that it’s not all sunshine and daisies. You have to have disposable income and poor judgment to become a distiller. But if this is a path that you’re willing to go down, if you’re looking for an elaborate way to waste some money, I’m happy to give you some tips, but it’s such a pleasure.

Clair: And, you know, going out on country and walking on country to collect botanicals is always, it’s so, so nice being just. Part of the environment. And the fact that we were able to give back to community is a big thing. So we work very closely with community. One of our gins actually is very community focused.

Clair: We have a gin called Bin Chicken Gin. It’s real name is Royal. Amazing. The reason why we call it bin chicken gin is because it uses ingredients that would otherwise go to waste. So its primary flavours are mandarin and lemon myrtle. Now the mandarin, we use the mandarin skins because the mandarin fruit is used by our local women’s group to make jam as their annual fundraiser.

Caitlin: Right. 

Clair: So we’re going this is a product that would otherwise be a source of waste, let’s use that instead. And for our lemon myrtle, I get to be the most creepy person in Townsville. I walk around the streets and look at people’s houses and then knock on their door and go, Hi, see that branch you have hanged quite close to the power lines.

Clair: Can I cut it and take it with me and make alcohol? Because lots of people grow lemon myrtle just as like a gum tree and they don’t know what it is. 

Caitlin: Right. 

Clair: And so it would otherwise go into green waste, all of these cuttings. But it means that I get to go around and go, Hi, I’d like to steal your leaves.

Clair: And. It means that for each batch, I can go, okay, this batch you’re currently drinking now, the leaves were collected from the Wulguru suburb. This is the exact location where it came from.

Caitlin: And do you put that on the bottles as well?

Clair: So we don’t put that on the bottles because, for our labels, we have to print our labels in bulk.

Clair: But it means that when we’re talking to people, we go, okay, this is where it came from. This is where it’s different. And all of our bottles have a batch number and a bottle number on it because when you’re working with fresh botanicals. There’s going to be some variants. So the easiest way of making gin, and once more I’ve chosen the most difficult way, the easiest way is you use essences.

Clair: You basically buy little bottles of cordial and you dump the cordial into your vodka, hey presto, you’re done. I don’t want to do that because for me it doesn’t feel real. If I’m saying I’ve used, you know, lemon myrtle, It means that I’ve used, I’ve cut down a branch, I’ve hauled it home and I’ve sat there and I’ve picked leaves off and washed them and put a pile of leaves in the still.

Clair: So each season it changes, you know, some years you might get a bit more oil in it when it’s, you know, really dry weather. And it’s more concentrated in the leaves at times, you know, you’ll be using different plants. So some have slightly different flavours. That’s why it’s so important to us that we put the batch number and we always say we will do our very, very best to make the batches taste as similar as possible, but they’ll never be 100%.

Clair: And what makes that even worse, when I was younger, I never went through that party and drinking phase. So I didn’t really indulge in alcohol. You know, when I was young, I had a sip of my father’s beer and went, this is terrible. Apparently I don’t like alcohol. So I didn’t drink until I started distilling, and then you kind of have to drink as you’re tasting it to see, is this right?

Clair: Do I have to change it? And whenever I would try a bit, I would end up feeling really sick. I’d get flushed red. I’d get these horrible rashes and hives. As it turns out, I’m a distiller who’s allergic to alcohol. 

Caitlin: Wow. 

Clair: So I can literally try one or two drops on the back of my hand when I’m distilling and go, it’s probably right.

Clair: And then I have to contact my, I go to my parents and get them to try it. Then I contact what I call my poisoning committee and go, right, we’ve got a new batch or we’ve got a revised batch. Can you come around and taste it? Might be good, might be terrible. Who knows? Wander up and down the street.

Caitlin: That’s, oh gosh, stories. It’s amazing. There’s, so that’s what strikes me. There’s so many stories with your brand, like it’s in your company, it’s founded on stories and it’s woven into everything that you do. And I think that’s beautiful, like so real and genuine which must be so different I should imagine it’s quite different in your industry to be so genuine and real.

Clair: Very much so. And. In the health industry, there’s always this pressure of not giving too much of yourself away because you want to protect your mental health, but you don’t want to divulge too much to your clients. And so there’s this sort of, you know, strict code of professionalism and you’re always one step removed, but it’s really refreshing.

Clair: In this sort of creative side where you don’t have to do all of that and you don’t have to worry so much about how you’ll be perceived because, you know, people can come and go, Oh, gee, you’re not very good at distilling. And I’ll go, you’re right. I’m very much learning and I’m doing my best and I’ll get there.

Clair: So you can, you can be honest and you can try things and go, I have no idea if this is going to work or not, but let’s throw it at the wall and see. 

Caitlin: Let’s go for it. I agree with you so much that In like the creative space, you can, create and you can show more of yourself and be more of yourself without the, I don’t know, there’s something about being in the professional health industry where there’s codes and things which are there for a purpose, but it is quite restrictive.

Caitlin: And it is lovely to have a space where, you can just be you and show up and be vulnerable and I think it’s a magical thing. So thank you for saying that because that’s exactly how I feel.

 And look, when you’re a professional, in the health industry, you have to project this perfect person because your clients need that.

Clair: But that’s not who any of us are, not in the real world, you know, in the real world, as soon as we get home, we’re as much of a mess as half our clients are. You know, that’s part of the experience of being human. 

Caitlin: Yes. Yeah. That’s it. We’re humans too, aren’t we? We’re not like robots. We’re just have the same messy complex lives as everyone else.

Clair: That’s why the creative side is so important because, you know, we do have to live for ourselves as well. It’s important that yes, we are able to perform well at work, but if you keep giving and giving and living that robotic lifestyle of having to be perfect all the time, you’re going to burn out.

Clair: You’re going to exhaust yourself. And I feel like while I’m doing my distilling the two days a week that I work in critical care, I’m able to work in a really intense part of the industry. And I’m able to do that. Such a better job. I wouldn’t be able to endure that level of, you know, critical emergency care five days a week, it would kill me.

Clair: But this, you know, I can go in, I can be there. I can be loving and caring and perfectly professional and then come home and enjoy my chaotic art space.

Caitlin: Yeah. I fully agree with you there as well, that it allows you to. Tolerate or bear the other work and particularly with you in critical care where 

Caitlin: you can’t get more pointy than that. And so to be able to have something, an outlet. is wonderful for both of your, both of your work to have that. 

Clair: I feel like healthcare workers are incredibly hypocritical because we talk a lot about self care and what our self care plans are and the importance of self care.

Clair: But for most people, they will finish their shift at, you know, five o’clock if they’re lucky, stumble home, eat dinner, watch TV, go to bed, and, you know, actually taking time to do that self care. The way that, you know, we know we probably should, it’s not practical and it doesn’t fit into a normal lifestyle.

Clair: So trying to, you know, split that balance, it’s, as I said, it’s a huge, scary step. And, you know, if you decide that you want to take that step and, you know, pick up a more creative side hustle, I’m not saying it’s not going to absolutely be terrifying and challenging and there are going to be days where you’re banging your head against the wall.

Clair: I think that the lifestyle it creates and the freedom it creates is so incredibly important. 

Caitlin: Absolutely. The lifestyle is a big thing. And that’s the thing, running a business is a totally different as well. It’s so challenging, but I don’t know about you, but I wouldn’t give it up even though it is challenging.

Caitlin: It’s hard. It’s so hard. But the other positives and the freedom and the flexibility for sure outweigh. 

Clair: It’s absolutely worth it. And I mean, if you’re looking for reasons not to do something, you can find reasons not to do something no matter what it is. But it’s a matter of, you know, having a plan and taking a leap of faith.

Clair: And there were lots of things in this where the honest answer was, I don’t know how to do it, but I’ll find out. I mean, even simple things like, because I was working on a shoestring budget. I made my own website. Did I know how to make a website? No, but I have Google so I can learn. We had to, you know, we couldn’t afford to pay someone to do our own labels.

Clair: So my mother and I literally sat outside on our veranda with, you know, paint pens and, you know, the square bits of paper you get for your scrapbooking and we painted all of the backgrounds. So it’s a case of look. If we had infinite money, could we pay someone more experienced to do that stuff? Yeah. But you’d be surprised how much you can do yourself when you don’t have a choice.

Clair: You go, well, is this going to be perfect? No. Does that actually matter at the end of the day? And a lot of people get caught up on the concept of perfection and that stops people from taking the leap and trying new things. But at the end of the day, you reach a point where you have to go, I’m just going to give it a crack and it’s going to be as good as I can get it today.

Clair: And tomorrow I might get it a bit better, the next day I might get it a bit better, but if I don’t start the journey now, I’m not going to improve and I’m not going to learn. 

Caitlin: That’s it. The messy, messy action is so much better than not doing anything because you’re paralyzed by, it needing to be perfect.

Caitlin: And I think even like, as you were talking and saying that you painted all the labels and the backgrounds and things like that is so Incredible for your brand to have that, I feel like that’s even better on some level than having a designer do it because it’s so personal to you and 

Caitlin: it’s part of the story and it’s a talking point as well, I think. 

Clair: Every element of it has a story so you can go, why did you pick this bird? And I can actually go, well, we chose this bird for this reason. So each of our labels features a native Australian bird. And we were trying to work out what we were going to use for our brand.

Clair: We went, well, because everything’s going to have so many different plants, we wanted to pick birds that represent key parts of Australia. And key parts of the ecosystem because they pollinate, they help spread seeds, they’re really important. So we’ve gone in with picked birds depending on where they live, what they eat, or key characteristics to match each of our botanicals.

Clair: So they’ve each got a reason behind it. All of the paintings have a story behind it. And, you know, if people ask, I can actually sit back and go, This is why it is the way it is, you know, some of the answers are really detailed and important. Some go, Oh, why is that marked like that? Sometimes the answer is because the Posca paint pen just exploded.

Clair: That’s why we now have a lot more white on this one than we originally intended. You know, we can be really honest and transparent and we welcome people to come and visit us and do tours of our distillery. Our distillery is a tiny little room and 95 percent of the time it’s in chaos. But we welcome people into our life and into our world to go, this is it.

Clair: This is the product we’ve made. And at the moment, I think we’ve actually made really nice products. You know, we’ve sent them off to some competitions. We’re looking at the judging and the feedback we get is really, really positive. And I think that’s because we do a lot of market research. With our poisoning committee, you know, it’s tested on real people and it’s made with real ingredients.

Caitlin: Yes. It’s all. 

Clair: So I can stand behind the product at the end of the day and go, the quality is there. But more than that, it’s done ethically. Every part of this, I can stand behind and go, we’re not causing harm in our business. And for every bottle sold, I go, you know, that’s more money for the community. Our two focuses for when we’re giving back to community, we do environmental causes.

Clair: So for the Gudjuda Reference Group they’ve got the Gudjuda Rangers. We’ve paid. 500 towards, their training. This is, we all say it’s, it’s a portion of the profits. There are no profits. We’re still donating anyway. We also work with auntie Lyn Munns and her women’s group, and they are hand on heart, the most amazing people I’ve ever met.

 Auntie Lyn Munns works with disadvantaged members of our community. She sometimes calls them the down and outers, the ones who’ve really struggled. And she. Not only provides a space for them to sit and talk and feel safe, but teaches really important life skills. So, for example, she taught them how to sew, so you can sew a button back onto your clothes.

Clair: So you can, you know, feel good about yourself wearing clothes that aren’t, you know, falling apart. We went, and caught up and did a cake decorating class, because they went, well, what if we want to make a cake for our, Granny’s birthday. I have never seen so many mature women turn into children before.

Clair: No, you can’t have the pink icing. It’s my turn with the pink icing. I want to do a rose next, so I need the pink icing. Well, why don’t you make a red rose then? And it’s so fabulous. They had such a blast. One of them is going to get married in the near future. And after doing that class, they’ve all decided that They’re going to come together and the women’s group is going to make the wedding cake and decorate the wedding cake as one as a gift to her so she can, you know, have that so it’s really nice to see the difference we’re making community just by helping provide opportunities and the thing is, is that.

Clair: Groups like that, a lot of people say, Oh, we donate, but you can get the donations back on tax if you donate to certain approved groups. But for us in our community, the groups that don’t fit the criteria, who haven’t applied to be a charity often, cause they’ve got no one in the group with that knowledge to manage all of the paperwork for that.

Clair: Yeah. They’re not eligible for any funding or support. And so most of our money that we sort of raise is sent to them because It’s about community and that’s what it has always been about and always will be about, you know. We want to support community in every aspect and we often get people go, oh it must be so easy being, you know, an Indigenous business, you must have so much funding.

Clair: We’re not eligible for any funding. We have been knocked back time and time again because of the stigma of Indigenous people and alcohol. I even spoke to a government agency and they said if you were White would give you money. If you were indigenous and it was not alcohol, it would give you money. But because it’s both, you’re not eligible.

Caitlin: Another room blocking challenge. What has that been like for you?

Clair: It’s quite frustrating. So, The stigma that people have is they go, oh, we’re thinking of people in the park who are drunk off their face. And they go, we don’t want the bad political story of the government supporting Indigenous people to get drunk.

Clair: But that’s not what it is. For one, if you can afford to sit in the park and get wasted on bottles of gin that cost 80, you are not in the demographic that, you know, the government’s worried about. And it’s not like, yes, we are an indigenous business. We are owned and managed by indigenous women. 100%. We’re not exclusively selling to first nations people.

Clair: In fact, most of our clients are not first nations people. They’re people who just want to learn about botanicals and, try something new. For us, We don’t see ourselves as a source of harm, we’re really very focused on helping community and sort of, you know, changing that dynamic because I’m sick of being told Indigenous people can’t be trusted with alcohol.

Clair: And I always get comments of, oh, so you’re black, you must drink all your products then. And it’s a case of no, literally can’t, not with my allergy, can’t drink any of it. But there’s something behind that. Yeah. And it means that, you know, I, I feel like I have to fight twice as hard, you know, to prove myself to try and go look, you know, the fact that I’m indigenous doesn’t mean that I’m a hazard.

Clair: And even when you do like your RSAs and you have to do, if you’re running a distillery and want to do markets, you have to do a course that basically. makes your manager in the course, they’re saying, Oh, you know, you have to be careful. So look out for people who are overly drunk, , look out for people who are under the influence of drugs, look out for people who are indigenous.

Clair: And they’re going, excuse me. I made a complaint and they went, Oh yeah, but that’s just real life advice. I’m going, you’re just spreading this racist nonsense. That’s just so deeply embedded. So it does make it hard. And the fact that I can’t get any funding is a challenge because as I said, I’ve just used my limited house savings.

Clair: And it means that my parents are stuck with me forever at this rate, the poor things, but, you know, it’s, When I look back, I go, at first I was shocked that there were no distilleries 100 percent owned and managed by First Nations women. But the more I learn about it, the more I go, I see why. You can’t get any financial support for it, when you can get financial support for most other business ventures.

Clair: You receive abuse and racism and awful comments. And you know, the constant hate letters and things like that wear people out. For me as a social worker, if someone comes up and, you know, tells me I’m this and that and wants to carry on and send me hate letters, I’ve heard worse from clients. So I’m not too bothered, you know, I see it more as a reflection of them than me, but, you know, You can see it adds to the list of reasons why people are going, why would I sign up for this when it sounds terrible?

Clair: But the bad elements are definitely outweighed by the good elements. And there are some people in the industry who are insanely supportive and fantastic. And I’ve had support from the strangest places. There’s a gentleman in New Zealand, who has literally written the book on distilling and he is fantastic.

Clair: And he’s reached out and gone, Hey, if you’ve got questions, I’ve seen what you’re doing, hit me up. I might not be able to answer them, but I can at least, you know, advocate for you. And there’s another gentleman who makes vermouth who’s over in England and he’s gone, look, I don’t make gin, but if it’s a general question, 

Clair: I’m here to help you. So it’s, it’s lovely to know that there are people out there who are keen to support and help, and you just have to learn to not listen to the people who are, you know, full of hate and vitriol, because if people want to be hateful, they will find a reason to be hateful, you know, I think my favorite comment that’s proved that is I had someone at a course tell me that I’m too fat to distill, being a plus size person, and I’ve gone, that’s proof.

Clair: You can be black, white, brindle, male, female, it doesn’t matter. If you want to hate someone, you’ll find a reason to hate them. And so you just go, yes, it’s frustrating, but the best thing you can do is prove them wrong. 

Caitlin: Yeah, you’re taking all of that and Yeah, channeling it into what you’re doing to prove them wrong and like you say, give back to community and make things better for them as well.

Clair: And it I do want to make, as cliche as this sounds and I hate saying it, I do want to make the world a better place. I want to try and contribute to the good things and it’s easy to get bogged down in, you know, the misery and the hate and to feel sorry for yourself, but that doesn’t actually help anyone.

Clair: For me, I’d rather actively do something every day that lets me go to bed at night and go, I’ve tried to make this better so that, you know, if we all pitch in with the same approach of let’s try and make this place better, if we’re not happy with it, let’s change it. It means that we actually eventually get a better world.

Caitlin: Yes, absolutely. Little by little and changing people’s perceptions and all of that. It takes a while, but you’re absolutely leading the way and it’s an incredible. 

Clair: We’ve only been doing this since December. So, you know. 

Caitlin: Is that right? I for some reason thought it must’ve been a while.

Caitlin: Wow.

Clair: No, no, no. So we’re very new at this stage, but we’ve got a big range and one of the benefits of being so small is that a lot of the big companies will have a very limited range for us because we’re tiny and we’re working from a little 65 litre still.

Clair: It means that I have the opportunity to indulge even more in my creativity and, you know, Indulge in the fact that I’m so easily distracted by new botanicals. So I can make, you know, 100 bottles of something or 200 bottles of something and then jump around. And that’s important because we distill with the seasons.

Clair: So because we are using whole botanicals and not those essences, it’s literally a case of, I’ll go out on country. Okay, this time of the year, the plums are beautiful. Let’s harvest plums and make plum gin. As soon as the plums are no longer at their prime. We stopped making plum gin, means if we sell out before next year, you just have to wait till the next year when it’s flowering again and we’ve got our fruit back.

Clair: And I go, okay, well now we don’t have plums. What else is good? Ah, the ginger looks perfect. Great. Let’s dig up some of our native ginger and make ginger gin. So we do have a big range. It does, change a lot. For some people, they find that frustrating. They go, oh, I fell in love with cockatiel gin. Why don’t you have cockatiel gin right now?

Clair: But it also means that I can guarantee that every gin you get the flavour when the plant’s at its best. 

Caitlin: Yeah, absolutely. When it’s at its best absolutely. And tell me what, what’s the future like? What are your Goals and ambitions.

Clair: So in the immediate future, I’m actually, flying down to Canberra tomorrow because we’re launching a new gin.

Clair: So our newest gin, is going to be our charming, our charming turkey gin. And that gin is made with desert limes, Tasmanian pepper berry. It’s also made with some redback ginger. And to the best of our knowledge, we can’t find anyone else who’s using redback ginger to distil, which is a shame because it grows all up around Atherton and just north of here.

Clair: It’s really easy to grow. It’s like normal ginger plants. You get those beautiful big leaves. It’s called redback, simply and purely because the back side of the leaf is bright red. So it’s something that’s ornamentally used in a lot of places and they don’t know you can eat it. But it’s delicious. And so we’ve distilled that and we’ve paired that with some chillies from our yard.

Clair: And our chilli blend is a lot of fun. So we’ve just gone what’s growing in the veggie patch. So we’ve got everything from bird’s eyes to Carolina Reapers to one of my favorite chillies. In my previous job, I worked at James Cook University for a while, my local uni. And the Botanical staff there got a little bit bored and decided that the lads would have a competition to see who could crossbreed the spiciest chilli.

Clair: And so we have a very spicy crossbred from the university that we were given as a gift from them. So that has, created quite a spicy blend. And as a result, we put a very, very tiny amount of chilli in the stew. And we’ve learned some very important things. If you, put chilli in a still, the actual part of the chilli, the capsaicin that makes it spicy, loves being in steam and mist form.

Clair: So that’s a really great way of, basically chilli spraying your entire office. We’ve learnt that. Also if you put really spicy chillies, in pure alcohol and let it soak, and then let that alcohol touch your skin, you get chemical burn. So, um, turkey’s gonna be limited edition, because I don’t want to make it again.

Clair: Not anytime soon. 

Caitlin: I’ve got too many injuries for this one. 

Clair: Well, it’s terrible because every time it happens, my workplace health and safety officer complains and then I have to do the paperwork. But the problem is I’m also the workplace health and safety officer. So I’m the worker who gets injured, the workplace health and safety officer who complains about it, and then the manager who has to do the paperwork.

Clair: So at the end of the day, I sit back going, well, that was a bit stupid. Probably could have looked into that a bit better before you hurt yourself. Oh well. That is one thing that I would suggest. If you, if you do decide to take on a creative path and work for yourself, have better workplace health and safety than I do.

Clair: But yeah, look, it’s a beautiful gin and we thought it’s great for winter because it’s got that gorgeous spice from the chilli and the ginger and the pepper. So we’re going down to Canberra, to the old Canberra Inn, on World Gin Day and we’re going to be there from lunchtime until the evening, giving away free gin samples of our entire range.

Clair: So people are welcome to come and have a free drink. Yeah. 

Caitlin: Oh, I would have been there in. A heartbeat. I love gin a lot. 

Clair: If you’re down in the area, come down. If not, any time you’re up around here, we always do free tastings because we appreciate that some of our gins are really weird because they are made from weird botanicals.

Clair: And that’s why I say, come and taste it. Try before you buy. But we’ve got a whole range of different things planned. And so we’ve sort of mapped out on the calendar when the different seasons are so that we can go, okay, This is when this is in flower. Let’s use this. So heaps more coming out soon.

Clair: So yeah, lots of, lots of exciting plans for the future for new gin releases. A big focus for me at the moment is using botanicals that have never been commercially used before. As I said, you’ve got the mimosa, you’ve got the redback ginger. We’ve got all of these really cool plants that are so incredible, but no one uses them.

Clair: The reason why they don’t use them is because they don’t know they exist. And I’m still learning about botanicals myself. I find myself walking through the street and then, you know, one of my aunties will be like, why aren’t you using this plant? I’ll go, what on earth is that? She’ll be like, it’s the tree next to you.

Clair: And the more I learned about it, the more exciting it is. It’s a constant thrill and it makes me really mindful. And it’s, it’s also such a grounding activity too, because now instead of walking the dogs through the park, you know, trying to make sure the dogs don’t bark anything and walking through the park going, Oh, there’s that, Oh, there’s this, Oh, look, that person’s got that.

Clair: I wonder what I can gather. I wonder what I can steal with permission. So it’s, it’s such a pleasure, but yeah, look, heaps more exciting things that’ll be coming out throughout the year. And look, we’re hoping to. Visit more parts of Australia so that we can expose more people to our genes. 

Caitlin: Yes, please.

Clair: Yeah, keep an eye out on our Facebook page. We’re always posting, lots of photos, lots of videos. I shouldn’t have to say this, but I’ve realized I now do. On our Facebook page, we use AI images of ibises. At least once a week, I get a message from someone very angry about the animal abuse. How dare you catch an ibis and dress it up as an Easter bunny for Easter. I also have people thinking that ibis gin is made with ibis feathers and that the actual birds on the labels are used in the gin. So I’m not torturing wild ibises, nor am I hunting rare and wild birds to turn into gin. I promise everything is safe. It’s all safe. There’s no animals harmed in the production.

Caitlin: Oh wow. 

Clair: Absolutely. So yeah, on our Facebook page, you can see our events, where we’re going, what we’re doing. We post lots of cocktail recipes. All of our cocktail recipes are with things that are made basically from what you can get at Coles. Some people will look at it and go, Gee, she uses a lot of cordial and a lot of this.

Clair: She uses the same things all the time. Yeah, cause I went to Coles and they’re still in my fridge. So I’m using them up in the cocktail videos.

Caitlin: That’s great though, isn’t it? Cause that’s the thing with some cocktail recipes. You read them and you’re like, what is that? Yeah. Ingredient. 

Clair: I’m not, I’m not a fancy bartender. I’ve got no experience in that area. So for us, it’s a case of what can you either get from the garden or get from Coles? So you’ll find, you know, Oh, she’s using a lot of elderflower cordial. Yeah. Cause that’s at Woolies and Coles. 

Caitlin: Yes. 

Clair: But it means that it’s stuff that people can easily, you know, copy themselves at home.

Clair: If I’ve managed to do it with my level of incompetence, you’ll be totally fine. Oh. But yeah, we just, we hope to get out more of our range as the season changes, and our goal is just to really tell the world who we are, and as I said, the magical long term goal is that we hope that we can become successful enough that we influence the industry so that people go, okay, fine, if that’s what they People want, because people vote by buying it.

Clair: That’s how things are decided in the commercial world. If we can get enough support that maybe the big industries will go, okay, we’ll do those ethical practices as well. If we could one day achieve that, that would be fabulous. Or if we can influence more people to go, you know, let’s have more distilleries, more indigenous distilleries and have more representation, that would be amazing as well.

Clair: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. paving the way. Definitely. I mean, I can’t wait to follow your journey and I’m just thinking, I’m like, I’m going to go and buy some. Gin, as soon as I get off the call, like, 

Clair: Buy on our website. We ship all over Australia.

Caitlin: I for sure will have to, but since you said that you do, tourists of the distillery, I’ll have to come down one weekend or one day and have a peek myself. 

Caitlin: You can come and make your own gin. We do, we do a variant of gin making classes. Most gin making classes are, here are a list of like vodkas that they’ve sort of pre distilled individual flavours and you put little drops in and try it and see what it’s like. For us, we’re much more hands on. We go, right, this is the still, we’ll help make sure you don’t blow up the house.

Caitlin: This is how distilling works. This is the history of gin. Good luck. I’ll be here with the fire extinguisher just in case. And we just give people a chance to actually experience the whole process hands on and I think it creates a greater respect for the actual end product when you realize what goes into it and the time and the effort and the chaos.

Caitlin: The magical ingredient, maybe. The chaos. 

Clair: Everyone else says, oh, this product’s made with love. Our gin is made with love. And chaos. And a small amount of swearing. But, you know, I think that’s, that’s the true story of creation. 

Caitlin: It is, yeah, the true story. And the failures and the mistakes and all of that.

Caitlin: No, you’ve done a beautiful job of talking about that. Keep us updated as well about what’s going on because I would love to share that with, the community, our community, it makes me so excited to know that what you’re doing exists warms my heart for sure.

Clair: Thank you so much and it’s a true passion project and you know I’ve heard people talk of passion projects before and I’ve never really appreciated what that meant but you know it’s something that I’m doing because I so strongly believe in the cause and I love the process and, you know, it’s, it’s mentally tough to an extent going, I’m going to go and work, you know, five days a week and you know that I’m not making any money, but still at the end of the day, I feel it’s so worth it.

Clair: And so I, prior to doing this, I would not have been able to comprehend that I would have gone if someone’s telling me that they’re doing that, they’re crazy, but I suppose I am crazy. But I think we need a bit of craziness in this world. 

Caitlin: We do, and they’re the ones that change things, the crazy ones.

Caitlin: Yeah, they really are. But thank you so much for this talk. I could listen all day to your stories. So I really hope you do. 

Clair: so much for your time. I’m definitely going to try and get a book out that goes, here are the native botanicals and here’s how to make them play nice.

Clair: Because, you know, if I can reduce people’s fear with engaging with those ingredients, I mean, you know, we might as well. Yeah. More people can learn about what’s growing around them. It also makes them more likely to engage in environmentally protective practices, because it’s, it’s easy not to care when you don’t understand.

Clair: But if you’re looking and going, actually, I eat what’s around me, I use what’s around me, I understand that it’s not just trees, you know. That’s my lunch or, you know, that’s something that has an actual meaning to me personally, people are far more likely to try and protect it. So, if I can make things relevant and important to the consumers.

Clair: And make them care about the land that they live on. That’s really precious.

Caitlin: It is. No, you’re doing a fantastic job, but thank you so much, 

Clair: Oh, thank you. 

Caitlin: Yeah, thank you.