Social worker to gin distiller: Conversation with Wiradjuri woman Clair Ryder

Hello, hello.

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Welcome to the place for offbeat

health professionals who have

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bravely swapped their health care

hats for non clinical creative caps.

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I'm Caitlin, a psychologist

turned copywriter, and this

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is Healers with Hustles.

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Caitlin: Today I have the absolute

pleasure of speaking with Claire, a

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Wiradjuri woman living and working on

Bindal country in Queensland, Australia.

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Claire owns and manages the first and

only distillery in Australia, 100 percent

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owned and managed by First Nations women.

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Welcome, Claire.

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Thank you so much for

joining me on the podcast.

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I am super excited to interview you today.

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Can you start off by telling me, a little

bit about your story and what led you to,

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having an amazing distillery company.

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Clair: I'm a Wiradjuri woman born

down in New South Wales, but because

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my father's in the military, I've

moved all over Australia, and I

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currently have the absolute pleasure

and honor of living on Bindal country.

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So to me, I have had a strong

passion for working with community

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and supporting community.

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And that led me to getting degrees

in psychology and social work.

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So I got my bachelor of arts in human

services and, and psychology moved on

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and did my master's of social work.

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And it was when I was working in this

field that I opened my big fat mouth.

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So I was looking for a

Christmas gift for my mother.

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And because we're First Nations people,

it's really special when I can get.

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A First Nations gift for her and, you

know, try and support community that way.

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Caitlin: Yes.

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Clair: And my mother loves gin.

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And I saw all of these beautiful

bottles and some had the most

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amazing Indigenous prints.

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And I read the bottle and it

had all the language about the

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Bush Tucker, about culture.

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And I went, wow, this must

be an absolutely incredible

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First Nations business.

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Yes.

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But then I googled it.

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And unfortunately, it was not.

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Not only was it not owned and managed

by First Nations people, it didn't

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actually engage with the community at all.

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There was no consultation.

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And the more I did research,

the more I found out that

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that's actually pretty common.

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People do this thing called blackwashing,

where they make a product look Indigenous,

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Caitlin: Yeah.

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Clair: But they don't actually have

Indigenous perspectives involved, and

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it's something that really upsets a lot

of communities, because the botanicals

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often aren't collected in ethical

ways, and because you're not talking

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to the people, you don't know what's

appropriate to use and what's not.

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An example of where this really went

badly is that down south there was a

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distillery who used a really sacred plant.

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And this is sort of Western

Australia, Southwestern Australia way.

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They chose a plant that they thought,

Oh, this is special to the community.

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This will sell out generally well.

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And they use special flowers in their

gin, but these sacred flowers are really

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important to the community because in that

region, it's believed that when elders

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and important people pass on, you know,

those that you love and are special to

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you, that their souls sort of, you know,

rest in the flowers and it's part of

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the gateway process of how they move on.

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And so seeing that the company had

come along and taken those precious

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flowers, you know, it's kind of

like stealing the souls of your

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loved ones and turning it into gin.

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Things like that can be avoided so

easily if you just talk to community.

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As a social worker, I spent so

much time advocating for people.

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I thought, well, this is

something that's so easy to fix.

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It's not hard to sit down and have a yarn.

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So I spoke to a couple of different

people in the industry and the general

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feedback I was given was that it

wasn't financially viable and was not

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worth the effort to run an ethical and

sustainable business in that sense.

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So I was basically told, yes, we could do

all those things, but why would we bother?

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And so that was really quite hurtful to

me and being the sort of person I am,

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I went and had a whinge to my aunties.

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And said, oh, this is terrible.

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They're doing all of this and they went,

yeah, we know that's pretty common.

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That's just the way it is.

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And social workers are

always taught to fight.

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You know, that's what we're here for.

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Caitlin: Absolutely.

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Yes.

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It's one of the amazing

qualities about social workers.

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Clair: Look, it's what

we're trained to do.

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It's what we're good at.

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And I think, you don't become a

social worker unless you've got that

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annoying trait where you're ready

to dig your heels in and fight.

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So, yeah, I was complaining

that this is wrong.

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This isn't how it should be.

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And my aunties basically smacked me

over the head and said, well, if you've

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got an issue with it, do it yourself.

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If you think that it's possible to run

this ethically, Prove 'em wrong, do it.

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And so that's sort of how I still

work part-time as a social worker.

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I work two days a week, in

critical care, helping people

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going through really rough times.

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But I spend the rest of my time working

on building a distillery, partially to

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prove a point out of stubbornness and

show you can be ethical, you can do

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things the right way, but also so we

can showcase our really awesome, unique

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botanicals that we have here in Australia.

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Because when you think

of native botanicals.

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Caitlin: I was just about to agree

with you, what better, like,

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First Nations people to be able

to, display botanicals and be able

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to educate it's a wonderful thing.

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Clair: And, you know, we do have

some distilleries out there that

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are Indigenous and that's amazing.

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And I'm, I look to all of, you

know, my brothers and sisters and

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go, what they're doing is incredible.

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But In all of my research, I found that.

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Yeah, there are some Indigenous

distilleries and there are some

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distilleries that have Indigenous staff,

but what really shocked me is that

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there were no distilleries in Australia.

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Zero.

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That were 100 percent owned and

managed by First Nations women.

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Caitlin: Wow.

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Yep.

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Clair: And that really shocked me

because when you think about Bush Tucker

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and when you're talking about gin, you

know, you're focusing on the botanicals

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and the plants that you're putting in

it, it's the women who traditionally

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hold that knowledge about the bush

tucker and go, you know, this is what

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it is, this is why it's important,

this is how we gather it and use it

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and how we work in harmony with nature.

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So it really surprised me that

despite the fact that in most of our

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communities, that's where the knowledge

is held, the power had really been

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stripped from them in this industry.

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Right.

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Caitlin: Yeah.

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Wow.

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And you're taking back that, but I don't

know about you, but I find that anger

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is such a powerful thing to get things

done or to like push, through, it

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just really helps the creation process.

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Yeah, it puts a fire in your

belly and wow, I'm so excited

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for you that you're doing this.

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Clair: Thank you.

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And look, I think you've hit on

a really important thing there.

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And you know, a lot of people go off

emotions like anger and frustration.

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They're bad emotions.

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They're evil emotions that people

shouldn't feel, but people in the

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healing sector know that all emotions

have strength and have power and

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they can be used for good or evil.

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And I think what really sealed

the deal for me was that.

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I've got no background in distilling

or any of that sort of stuff.

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So I went down to Adelaide University

and studied a course in distilling.

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So I could learn how to do it.

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And when I showed up there, you know, I

was met with so much sexism and racism.

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And I've done lots of

different studies for this.

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And on one of the courses I went to.

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I sat down and I was met with such

aggression from a group of men who

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came over at one of the courses and

were like, Hey, you don't belong here.

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You should leave before class starts.

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What are you doing here?

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And I was really surprised because

I hadn't encountered that, you know,

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as a social worker and I went, Oh,

Look, I know I'm First Nations.

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They went, what?

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You're First Nations?

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We had issues with you

because you were a woman.

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Now we know you're black too.

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So, it's an industry where there are

some amazing people and some really

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supportive people but it's also very

much it's an old men's club, basically.

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Don't like outsiders.

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And look, the industry

is a challenging place.

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The tax alone makes me want to cry.

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The alcohol tax is over a

hundred dollars per liter.

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So it's an expensive thing to

get into and you have to get

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local state and federal approval.

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So people who have, you know,

decided to do this, they're

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putting a lot of money in.

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So some of them are, Really

defensive and they see anyone else

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as a threat, which is unfortunate

because that's not what I'm here for.

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And I'm so small scale, I'm not

going to be a threat to anyone,

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but they're just so defensive.

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But the more people tell me to get

out and bugger off and that I don't

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belong here and don't deserve to be

here, the more I take that energy

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and sink my heels in and go, no, the

less you want me, the more I'll stay.

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Caitlin: That's it.

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Absolutely.

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And to, yeah, show them what's

possible and I should imagine you

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have your community behind you

and like all of your, aunties and

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brothers and sisters and everyone.

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Yeah.

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Clair: So when I sort of decided that

this is what I wanted to do, I've been

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talking to, various elders and TOs,

in the Vindal community, and that all

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sort of gone, yeah, that's a good idea.

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But the best way to do it,

if you want to do it properly

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is come and stand before the.

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[there seems to be a glitch?] Commission

because there's controversy when you

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look at alcohol and First Nations

people, I'll touch on that later on,

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but, you know, it's a sensitive topic

that has to be approached with care.

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Caitlin: Yes.

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Clair: So I went in, stood before them.

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I was nervous as anything, felt

like a school kid again, and

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gave my pitch and explained, you

know, this is what I want to do.

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This is why I want to do it.

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I want to have, you know, a

distillery that's driven by

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community and puts community first.

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And one of my goals is to have a

portion of all the profits go back

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to community and really have it be,

you know, guided by the elders and

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driven for the purpose of community.

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And they all sort of turned and looked to,

you know, the oldest person in the room.

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And, you know, he was this.

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Old bloke and he'd looked

very serious the entire time.

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I've never met this gentleman before.

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And he looked at me in a really stern

voice said, do you know what I think of

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people like you and a part of me died

and I froze inside and I'm thinking I'm

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about to get thrown out of the room.

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Everyone's silent and just staring at him.

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And after a minute he went, I think

it's really inspirational that

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you're going to make a difference.

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I nearly hit the floor.

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I thought he was going to throw me out.

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Caitlin: Oh, That must have

just like been the most, yeah,

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comforting, but gave, you that

strength that you're onto something.

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Clair: Absolutely.

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And they have all been fabulous.

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They all kind of went, well,

here are people we know who deal

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with this and deal with that.

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And you know, the local

rangers group are fantastic.

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We've had a really good, yarn about, you

know, they make sure that they take care

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of the environment and they're looking

at what they can grow for me because,

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with botanicals, it sounds really good at

first when you say it's wild harvested,

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but one of the issues that comes up again

and again is how is it wild harvested?

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There are big companies that will

go, all right, we wild harvest our

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Davidson plums, but what they actually

do is they go on country and they

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just strip it and they don't leave

enough for the plants to receive.

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They don't leave enough for

the local people they don't

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leave enough for the animals.

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And it's really harmful.

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So I've spent a lot of time sourcing.

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groups that work with the blessings of

the land owners of the Indigenous people

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who own the land and that they harvest

in an ethical and sustainable way.

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I do a lot of harvesting myself but

whatever I can't get, I make sure it's

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collected in an appropriate way and

where possible I'm trying to hook up

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with different people who can help by

actually farming and farming sounds

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really imposing and big, but we only

use small amounts of botanicals.

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So farming can be as simple as

getting people to grow things in pots.

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There's a botanical that I really

want to use, called Atherton

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raspberry or native raspberry.

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And the main supplier of it sells

it only freeze dried and they

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sell it for almost 400 a kilo.

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Caitlin: Oh, wow.

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Clair: So.

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The additional birthday present

that all of my friends have

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gotten is happy birthday.

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Here's your gift.

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Also, here's a small potted raspberry.

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I will buy the fruit back off you.

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And so a lot of it's very much

community driven in that sense as well.

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Caitlin: That's so lovely

that you have that.

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But then you've also got this vision

because I was really curious about

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the botanicals and like your favorite

botanicals tell me all about that.

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Really keen to hear.

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Clair: So for me, there are some

botanicals that everyone knows because

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you know, when you think of native

bush tucker, you've got things like

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your lemon myrtle, which everyone uses.

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And it's fabulous.

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I use it as well.

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But there are hundreds and hundreds

of plants that taste delicious.

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But I never used.

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And for whatever reason, most people

feel this little comfort zone of here

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are the six plants we're willing to use.

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I'm working with community and

going, let's go beyond that.

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Now, that means that there are

lots of steep learning curves.

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So we have a gin, that's Joyful

Cockatiel Gin and it's made using

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Grevillea flowers and Mimosa flowers.

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And that's what I call my learning

curve gin because it was a very

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big learning moment for me.

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Caitlin: Oh.

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Was it?

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Tell me.

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Clair: So Mimosa flowers, it's another

name for a type of Acacia or Wattle.

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Now both Grevillea And this type

of wattle flower, we use them out

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bush to make cordial to flavour

water to make it taste nicer.

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So the theory was let's

just make a hard cordial.

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So I got, a friend to go and pick some

flowers and send them and they all got

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sent to me, put them in the pot, was

boiling them up, made a little bit to

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test because you always make small batches

because you never know what it's actually

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going to taste like until you've done it.

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And I'm there pouring it all into a

bottle and I get a panicked call from

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my auntie going, Do not drink that gin.

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Why?

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What happened?

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So she had sent her boys and told

them, go pick some flowers, we'll

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send them down to your cousin.

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And they'd gotten a bit lazy.

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And instead of just picking the

flowers, they'd grabbed handfuls

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of leaves as well and thrown it in.

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And I'd gone, well, Arnie said this was

safe, I'll throw it in, let's find out.

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The flowers, delicious and safe.

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The leaves, highly psychotropic.

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So that batch had to get poured

down the drain, before we created

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a very interesting experience.

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I kind of went, well, just

so I know, so I know how to

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dispose of this, how bad is it?

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And she said, I'll put you on to uncle.

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And I had a chat to one of my uncles.

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And he said, look, when he was

younger, Like, we all lie to the kids.

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We say, don't eat the leaves,

they'll give you bad diarrhoea.

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And so the kids avoid them.

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When he found out what the truth was,

he grabbed a pile, boiled them up into

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tea when he was younger, had a drink.

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He was in Townsville, he woke up in

Bowen, three days later, said he must

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have walked there because he didn't

have his car keys, too late his wallet.

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I don't know what happened.

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So it depends on the time of

year, how much oil and what sort

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of things are in the leaves.

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But the general rule

of thumb is no leaves.

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So now when I make that

gin, I'm so meticulous.

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They're sorting very

carefully through each flower.

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And I've got this tiny little set of

micro scales, which is as it turns out,

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if you buy scales that measure down to 0.

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01 grammes or smaller, people start

questioning what you're making.

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Caitlin: Yeah.

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I bet.

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Clair: I've had to assure people, I'm

not a drug dealer, I'm making alcohol,

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and I sit there very meticulously

with a pair of little tweezers, taking

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all the flowers out from the leaves,

weighing them very carefully, making

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sure that there can be no contamination.

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Caitlin: No contaminants.

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Wow, it just struck me like how much

love and care that you put into your

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gin and so much passion as well.

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Clair: I really do love what I do and

for me, it's, it's a really exciting

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process and as dreadfully nerdy as

it sounds, every time I learn about a

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new plant, for me, it's like unlocking

a new level in a video game, I go,

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oh, I can do this, I can do that.

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It also means that I get to

share things with people that

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they wouldn't normally have.

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So most people have never tried

mimosa blossom, even though we

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drink it as cordial outbush.

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And for me, by doing this, it means

that I can actually show people and

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go, Hey, here's a really awesome

plant you walk past every single day.

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And it's amazing.

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And it tastes delicious.

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And a great example of that is when

you have a look at even down our

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local park, you have lots of different

trees that just look like gum trees

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and people don't give a second

thought to me when I go down there.

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I see a candy store because

you have these gum leaves in

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all these different flavours.

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Like you've got your lemon

myrtle that tastes like lemon.

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You get peppermint gum, which tastes like

peppermint, you get ones that taste like

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cinnamon and licorice and strawberry.

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And the more that I can sort

of get these together, the more

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I can teach people about them.

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Because one thing I did find out is that

if you go up to a total stranger and go,

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Hey, want to try these weird berries?

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You've never heard of them before.

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Promise they're delicious.

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People will not be interested.

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And in my old job, I used to work with

my students and we'd make bush tucker

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jam and people would be really hesitant.

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Oh, I've never heard of that plant before.

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I don't want to go near that.

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What if it's sus?

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If you put it in alcohol,

people ask no questions.

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Caitlin: What do you make of that?

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Clair: I think that they're

just willing to be more daring.

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And, you know, it puts it in a medium that

people are comfortable experimenting in.

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I mean, good heavens, you know, people

still buy, you know, alcohol that's

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got worms in it and, you know, toes

in it and weird stuff like that.

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So they're willing to go, sure,

I've never heard of this berry.

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Let's give it a crack.

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Caitlin: Let's go for it.

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Clair: We're the first and currently only

company that commercially uses mimosa,

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australian mimosa, which is wild to me

because it is such a delicious plant.

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It tastes like orange, sort of a weird

hybrid between orange and mandarin.

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So we were doing a tasting actually

yesterday, cause we're preparing to

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go down South to launch a new gin

at a pub in Canberra and they were

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doing a tasting down there and one

of the young girls described our

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mimosa gin as being like fancy Fanta.

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Caitlin: Fancy Fanta.

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That's great copy as well.

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I hope you're writing down these

things that people are saying to

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use in your product description.

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Clair: And that's obviously how we get the

descriptions of how we describe things.

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Because how on earth do you say, Oh, it

tastes like Grevillea and Mimosa flower.

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And people go, I don't know what.

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Either of those things taste like.

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Caitlin: Yes.

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You're translating for them.

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Clair: And that is a big challenge.

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And when you're having a look at the

flavours, you also have to have a

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look at the science, which I feel so

bad for the chemistry tutor I got.

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I didn't study, like,

chemistry in high school.

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For me, I'm an English girl.

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I love my English.

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I love my drama.

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Caitlin: Yes.

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Clair: If it involved

numbers, I wasn't interested.

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But now I've had to learn chemistry.

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And so I remember my poor

chemistry tutor coming over.

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He taught one of my sisters, who, both

my sisters are very academic people, and

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very good with their maths and chemistry.

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I'm not.

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So he pulled out his book and

he's like, right, we're just going

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to do a little warm up activity.

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So if you can take this law and combine it

with this law from there, you'll get this.

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Don't forget, you've got the hydro theory.

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Once you apply thermodynamics,

that'll give you the first set of

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moles, and that will give us our

starting point for the question.

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And as he's saying all these

words that mean nothing to

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me, I'm just staring at him.

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I said, what are moles?

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Which is the chemistry equivalent

of going, what's a centimetre?

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Just watch as he died inside

and packed his book away.

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And I think I've got some primary school

books in the car, but he was fabulous.

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He took me from the very basics.

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And it means that basically.

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When you're tasting something when you're

tasting a fresh ingredient, the flavour

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that you get come from these magical

science things called congeners, which

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are all of these different chemicals

that contribute an overall flavour.

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But when you're distilling, you're putting

it in alcohol and heat that breaks it

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down and separates it, which means that

you get potentially different flavours.

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So as I've discovered very, very recently

and excitingly, names of lemongrass.

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When you chew on it raw,

it tastes like lemon.

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But when you cook it, it

has actually several of the

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same chemicals that roses do.

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And so that means when you cook your

lemongrass, you get a rose flavour.

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Sometimes you get good outcomes.

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Sometimes you have things like a freezer

full of emu berries that taste fine when

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you eat them raw and turn into absolute

disgusting messes when you cook them.

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So you have your wins and you have

your losses and I have vowed I will

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find a way to use them, but I have

never succeeded with Amy Berry.

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Caitlin: I'm just imagining, what

your, kitchen must look like sometimes

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with, trying different things.

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Clair: It's totally chaotic.

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It's gotten to the point in which

I have my own dedicated freezer and

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I'm actually so incredibly fortunate

because, prior to starting this, I was

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saving up a home deposit and I've been

living with my parents who are without

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a doubt the most patient understanding

people on the face of the planet.

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I came to them and went, so you've

supported me through uni, watched as

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I've gotten my base degrees and my

master's, you've watched as I finally

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got a job that pays really well.

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And you're very proud of me for that.

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I would like to leave that job and

start a distillery using my savings

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for my house, meaning you're not

getting rid of me anytime soon.

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Also, I know nothing about distilling, and

I don't know if this will ever make money.

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And they looked at me and went,

okay, if that's like you want to do.

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We'll do that.

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And so dad had a little

music room at the front.

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He ripped down one wall, doubled its

size, and helped build a distillery.

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Mum and dad put up wallpaper

without getting divorced, although

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that part was a close call.

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And I've continued to make things

difficult for them, like When you're

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making alcohol, you have to have a

cooling system and sort of the two

439

standard ways of doing that is you

either use like a glycol chiller,

440

which uses, basically lots of products

that eventually you have to try and

441

dispose of safely, which is not great.

442

Cause you've got all this chemical

waste or a lot of places just.

443

Dump the water out onto the garden

slash down the drain, and that's

444

thousands of litres of water.

445

And when I'm trying to do something that's

an ethical business, that hurts my heart.

446

So instead what we've got is we've

got two of these IBCs, which is

447

the fancy name given, to giant big

buckets that they ship chemicals in.

448

So we've got two empty ones of those,

scrub them out, one's filled with

449

water, one's empty, and we use a pond

pump, and the water goes from one into

450

the other, and by the time one's empty

and the other's full, it's cool enough

451

that we go and manually grab the pipes,

swap them over, and we've got solar

452

on the roof that powers that, so we've

got zero water waste, all powered by

453

solar as much as possible, um, and

all of these little bits and pieces

454

that we've changed to make it better.

455

Caitlin: Yeah.

456

Like.

457

Innovative and inventive and

creative it's incredible.

458

But you've really hit on something that.

459

Is a bit of a pain point or something

that's a bit conflicting having like a

460

profession and yeah, I'm earning money

and I'm studied for so long and now I'm

461

in this career and yes, it's fantastic.

462

But then it's like, Oh, I actually

have this little creative itch.

463

I want to create something.

464

I see there's a gap in the world

that I want to make better.

465

I don't know what your experience

has been, but a lot of people

466

might not get it or they might

think like, what are you doing?

467

And then obviously it comes out of

a place of protection and they want

468

the best for you, but it can be a

bit scary in that initial part where

469

you're transitioning or yeah, changing.

470

Clair: It's terrifying.

471

A lot of people thought I was

having an early midlife crisis and

472

just going, what are you doing?

473

You know, there's, there's something

wrong with you, you know, do you

474

need to see a counsellor yourself?

475

Do you need to go and see another social

worker since you're the social worker?

476

And people were genuinely very worried

because, you know, Going from a

477

good income to spending my savings

and, you know, having that all go

478

out the window and hand on heart, I

couldn't tell people, will this work?

479

Will it fail?

480

You know, legally in Australia,

you can't distill at home for fun.

481

So you, you can make home brew, but

you legally can't make your own spirit.

482

And so unless I drop, you know,

30 grand in getting state,

483

local, and federal approval.

484

I can't even touch the alcohol

to see if I'm good at it.

485

So there was, I'm there with fair chances

going, what if I pay all of this money,

486

quit my job, do all of this and find

out I'm really bad at making alcohol.

487

Caitlin: That's a huge

thing to carry and hold.

488

How have you been able to get

through and cope with all of that?

489

Like there's conflicting thoughts.

490

Clair: It's, it's really terrifying.

491

And for me, the money part was the

biggest fear, watching my bank go down

492

and seeing all my savings disappear.

493

It did lead to plenty of sleepless

nights and going, I really hope.

494

People like my product.

495

And at this point in time, you

know, we're still not making profit.

496

We're still in the hole, but

we're climbing out each day.

497

The way that I dealt with it basically

was if you're going to make a big

498

decision like this, you have to have

a big why, why are you doing this?

499

And for me, I was driven

and supported by community.

500

The more I looked at what some other

distilleries had done in the past and

501

we're still doing, I went, this is wrong.

502

I feel in my heart.

503

What they're doing is wrong.

504

And as a social worker, you know, I

became a social worker to fight, to

505

change the world, to be a better place.

506

And my logic was that, look, I will

never be the biggest distillery.

507

I will never make the most money,

but if I can be successful enough.

508

To inconvenience the big guys so that

they go, okay, well, if people are

509

signing with her over us, because we're

not doing ethical things, maybe we

510

will then go and do the tiny ethical

things that she was hoping for.

511

Maybe we'll talk to community.

512

Maybe we'll actually

protect our environment.

513

And my hope is that, you know, I can

become big enough to annoy them to

514

make the big changes to protect our

community, protect our people, protect

515

our environment and do what's decent.

516

Yeah, it's a huge why.

517

And that's it.

518

You do need a huge why.

519

Because otherwise, when you're sitting

at night going, Why am I doing this?

520

If you don't have that answer,

you're not going to make it.

521

So you need to have that and you

need to have your support network and

522

my community were so amazing every

step of the way they're going, yeah,

523

we agree what's happening is wrong.

524

And since talking to people and going,

will you please change what you're doing

525

doesn't work, this is going to be, you

know, the only other option we've got.

526

And my family were, as I

said, so amazingly patient.

527

I mean, I'll be honest, if the tables

were turned, If I had a kid who

528

went, hi, I want to quit everything

now and start something that.

529

I may be terrible at and risk everything.

530

I think I'd be terrified.

531

So I'm in awe of how

they have handled this.

532

But yeah, it's, it's that why, it's

that why that drives me every day.

533

You know, when you have bad days,

when a batch turns sour, when you

534

get chemical burns because you've

discovered that distilling chilli

535

creates basically chilli gas, you

need to have a reason to keep going.

536

Caitlin: Yeah.

537

It'd be so lovely to, well, you could

write a book about this, that would be

538

so fascinating, about all your learnings,

and I think it would be such a valuable

539

thing to write down for yourself, but

then also to, pass on that knowledge.

540

Clair: And one of the things I'm actually

doing on that topic is I'm, I'm keeping

541

really detailed notes about the botanicals

and how they work when you distill them.

542

Because the more traditional botanicals

have been so well studied, you basically

543

get a cheat code to distill them,

which is great when I'm using the non

544

native botanicals, because I can look

and go, ah, juniper, if you put it

545

at this temperature with this amount

of alcohol, it comes out delicious.

546

No one's done that sort of study

on Most of our botanicals, you

547

know, most of our bush tucker.

548

And so I had no clue at all, like,

when I threw the lemongrass in, I'm

549

going, great, I'm going to get lemon.

550

No clue at all.

551

It comes out rose.

552

And so by trying to keep really

detailed notes of this, my hope is that,

553

look, if anyone else wants to start a

distillery, if I can save them some of

554

the pain, some of the suffering, some

of the waste, that would be fabulous.

555

And so, I've always said to people,

you know, if this is something

556

you're excited to do, be aware that

it's not all sunshine and daisies.

557

You have to have disposable income and

poor judgment to become a distiller.

558

But if this is a path that you're

willing to go down, if you're looking

559

for an elaborate way to waste some

money, I'm happy to give you some

560

tips, but it's such a pleasure.

561

And, you know, going out on country and

walking on country to collect botanicals

562

is always, it's so, so nice being just.

563

Part of the environment.

564

And the fact that we were able to

give back to community is a big thing.

565

So we work very closely with community.

566

One of our gins actually

is very community focused.

567

We have a gin called Bin Chicken Gin.

568

It's real name is Royal.

569

Amazing.

570

The reason why we call it bin chicken

gin is because it uses ingredients

571

that would otherwise go to waste.

572

So its primary flavours are

mandarin and lemon myrtle.

573

Now the mandarin, we use the mandarin

skins because the mandarin fruit is

574

used by our local women's group to

make jam as their annual fundraiser.

575

Caitlin: Right.

576

Clair: So we're going this is a product

that would otherwise be a source

577

of waste, let's use that instead.

578

And for our lemon myrtle, I get to be

the most creepy person in Townsville.

579

I walk around the streets and look at

people's houses and then knock on their

580

door and go, Hi, see that branch you have

hanged quite close to the power lines.

581

Can I cut it and take it

with me and make alcohol?

582

Because lots of people grow lemon

myrtle just as like a gum tree

583

and they don't know what it is.

584

Caitlin: Right.

585

Clair: And so it would otherwise go

into green waste, all of these cuttings.

586

But it means that I get to go around and

go, Hi, I'd like to steal your leaves.

587

And.

588

It means that for each batch, I can

go, okay, this batch you're currently

589

drinking now, the leaves were

collected from the Wulguru suburb.

590

This is the exact location

where it came from.

591

Caitlin: And do you put

that on the bottles as well?

592

Clair: So we don't put that on the

bottles because, for our labels, we

593

have to print our labels in bulk.

594

But it means that when we're

talking to people, we go, okay,

595

this is where it came from.

596

This is where it's different.

597

And all of our bottles have a batch number

and a bottle number on it because when

598

you're working with fresh botanicals.

599

There's going to be some variants.

600

So the easiest way of making gin, and

once more I've chosen the most difficult

601

way, the easiest way is you use essences.

602

You basically buy little bottles of

cordial and you dump the cordial into

603

your vodka, hey presto, you're done.

604

I don't want to do that because

for me it doesn't feel real.

605

If I'm saying I've used, you know,

lemon myrtle, It means that I've used,

606

I've cut down a branch, I've hauled

it home and I've sat there and I've

607

picked leaves off and washed them and

put a pile of leaves in the still.

608

So each season it changes, you know, some

years you might get a bit more oil in it

609

when it's, you know, really dry weather.

610

And it's more concentrated in

the leaves at times, you know,

611

you'll be using different plants.

612

So some have slightly different flavours.

613

That's why it's so important to us that

we put the batch number and we always

614

say we will do our very, very best to

make the batches taste as similar as

615

possible, but they'll never be 100%.

616

And what makes that even worse, when

I was younger, I never went through

617

that party and drinking phase.

618

So I didn't really indulge in alcohol.

619

You know, when I was young, I

had a sip of my father's beer

620

and went, this is terrible.

621

Apparently I don't like alcohol.

622

So I didn't drink until I started

distilling, and then you kind

623

of have to drink as you're

tasting it to see, is this right?

624

Do I have to change it?

625

And whenever I would try a bit, I

would end up feeling really sick.

626

I'd get flushed red.

627

I'd get these horrible rashes and hives.

628

As it turns out, I'm a distiller

who's allergic to alcohol.

629

Caitlin: Wow.

630

Clair: So I can literally try one or two

drops on the back of my hand when I'm

631

distilling and go, it's probably right.

632

And then I have to contact my, I go

to my parents and get them to try it.

633

Then I contact what I call my poisoning

committee and go, right, we've got a

634

new batch or we've got a revised batch.

635

Can you come around and taste it?

636

Might be good, might be terrible.

637

Who knows?

638

Wander up and down the street.

639

Caitlin: That's, oh gosh, stories.

640

It's amazing.

641

There's, so that's what strikes me.

642

There's so many stories with your

brand, like it's in your company,

643

it's founded on stories and it's

woven into everything that you do.

644

And I think that's beautiful, like

so real and genuine which must

645

be so different I should imagine

it's quite different in your

646

industry to be so genuine and real.

647

Clair: Very much so.

648

And.

649

In the health industry, there's always

this pressure of not giving too much of

650

yourself away because you want to protect

your mental health, but you don't want

651

to divulge too much to your clients.

652

And so there's this sort of, you

know, strict code of professionalism

653

and you're always one step removed,

but it's really refreshing.

654

In this sort of creative side where

you don't have to do all of that and

655

you don't have to worry so much about

how you'll be perceived because, you

656

know, people can come and go, Oh, gee,

you're not very good at distilling.

657

And I'll go, you're right.

658

I'm very much learning and I'm

doing my best and I'll get there.

659

So you can, you can be honest and you

can try things and go, I have no idea

660

if this is going to work or not, but

let's throw it at the wall and see.

661

Caitlin: Let's go for it.

662

I agree with you so much that In like

the creative space, you can, create

663

and you can show more of yourself

and be more of yourself without the,

664

I don't know, there's something

about being in the professional

665

health industry where there's codes

and things which are there for a

666

purpose, but it is quite restrictive.

667

And it is lovely to have a space

where, you can just be you and

668

show up and be vulnerable and

I think it's a magical thing.

669

So thank you for saying that

because that's exactly how I feel.

670

Clair: And look, when you're a

professional, in the health industry,

671

you have to project this perfect

person because your clients need that.

672

But that's not who any of us are, not

in the real world, you know, in the real

673

world, as soon as we get home, we're as

much of a mess as half our clients are.

674

You know, that's part of the

experience of being human.

675

Caitlin: Yes.

676

Yeah.

677

That's it.

678

We're humans too, aren't we?

679

We're not like robots.

680

We're just have the same messy

complex lives as everyone else.

681

Clair: That's why the creative side

is so important because, you know, we

682

do have to live for ourselves as well.

683

It's important that yes, we are able to

perform well at work, but if you keep

684

giving and giving and living that robotic

lifestyle of having to be perfect all

685

the time, you're going to burn out.

686

You're going to exhaust yourself.

687

And I feel like while I'm doing my

distilling the two days a week that I

688

work in critical care, I'm able to work

in a really intense part of the industry.

689

And I'm able to do that.

690

Such a better job.

691

I wouldn't be able to endure that level

of, you know, critical emergency care

692

five days a week, it would kill me.

693

But this, you know, I can

go in, I can be there.

694

I can be loving and caring and

perfectly professional and then come

695

home and enjoy my chaotic art space.

696

Caitlin: Yeah.

697

I fully agree with you there as

well, that it allows you to.

698

Tolerate or bear the other

work and particularly with

699

you in critical care where

700

you can't get more pointy than that.

701

And so to be able to have

something, an outlet.

702

is wonderful for both of your,

both of your work to have that.

703

Clair: I feel like healthcare workers are

incredibly hypocritical because we talk a

704

lot about self care and what our self care

plans are and the importance of self care.

705

But for most people, they will finish

their shift at, you know, five o'clock if

706

they're lucky, stumble home, eat dinner,

watch TV, go to bed, and, you know,

707

actually taking time to do that self care.

708

The way that, you know, we know we

probably should, it's not practical and

709

it doesn't fit into a normal lifestyle.

710

So trying to, you know, split

that balance, it's, as I

711

said, it's a huge, scary step.

712

And, you know, if you decide that you

want to take that step and, you know,

713

pick up a more creative side hustle, I'm

not saying it's not going to absolutely

714

be terrifying and challenging and

there are going to be days where you're

715

banging your head against the wall.

716

I think that the lifestyle it

creates and the freedom it creates

717

is so incredibly important.

718

Caitlin: Absolutely.

719

The lifestyle is a big thing.

720

And that's the thing, running a

business is a totally different as well.

721

It's so challenging, but I don't know

about you, but I wouldn't give it

722

up even though it is challenging.

723

It's hard.

724

It's so hard.

725

But the other positives and the freedom

and the flexibility for sure outweigh.

726

Clair: It's absolutely worth it.

727

And I mean, if you're looking for reasons

not to do something, you can find reasons

728

not to do something no matter what it is.

729

But it's a matter of, you know, having

a plan and taking a leap of faith.

730

And there were lots of things in this

where the honest answer was, I don't

731

know how to do it, but I'll find out.

732

I mean, even simple things like, because

I was working on a shoestring budget.

733

I made my own website.

734

Did I know how to make a website?

735

No, but I have Google so I can learn.

736

We had to, you know, we couldn't afford

to pay someone to do our own labels.

737

So my mother and I literally sat outside

on our veranda with, you know, paint

738

pens and, you know, the square bits

of paper you get for your scrapbooking

739

and we painted all of the backgrounds.

740

So it's a case of look.

741

If we had infinite money, could we pay

someone more experienced to do that stuff?

742

Yeah.

743

But you'd be surprised how much you can

do yourself when you don't have a choice.

744

You go, well, is this going to be perfect?

745

No.

746

Does that actually matter

at the end of the day?

747

And a lot of people get caught

up on the concept of perfection

748

and that stops people from taking

the leap and trying new things.

749

But at the end of the day, you reach

a point where you have to go, I'm just

750

going to give it a crack and it's going

to be as good as I can get it today.

751

And tomorrow I might get it a bit

better, the next day I might get it

752

a bit better, but if I don't start

the journey now, I'm not going to

753

improve and I'm not going to learn.

754

Caitlin: That's it.

755

The messy, messy action is so much better

than not doing anything because you're

756

paralyzed by, it needing to be perfect.

757

And I think even like, as you were

talking and saying that you painted

758

all the labels and the backgrounds

and things like that is so Incredible

759

for your brand to have that, I

feel like that's even better on some

760

level than having a designer do it

because it's so personal to you and

761

it's part of the story and it's

a talking point as well, I think.

762

Clair: Every element of it has a story so

you can go, why did you pick this bird?

763

And I can actually go, well, we

chose this bird for this reason.

764

So each of our labels features

a native Australian bird.

765

And we were trying to work out what

we were going to use for our brand.

766

We went, well, because everything's

going to have so many different

767

plants, we wanted to pick birds that

represent key parts of Australia.

768

And key parts of the ecosystem because

they pollinate, they help spread

769

seeds, they're really important.

770

So we've gone in with picked birds

depending on where they live, what

771

they eat, or key characteristics

to match each of our botanicals.

772

So they've each got a reason behind it.

773

All of the paintings

have a story behind it.

774

And, you know, if people ask, I can

actually sit back and go, This is why it

775

is the way it is, you know, some of the

answers are really detailed and important.

776

Some go, Oh, why is that marked like that?

777

Sometimes the answer is because

the Posca paint pen just exploded.

778

That's why we now have a lot more white

on this one than we originally intended.

779

You know, we can be really honest

and transparent and we welcome

780

people to come and visit us

and do tours of our distillery.

781

Our distillery is a tiny little room and

95 percent of the time it's in chaos.

782

But we welcome people into our life

and into our world to go, this is it.

783

This is the product we've made.

784

And at the moment, I think we've

actually made really nice products.

785

You know, we've sent them

off to some competitions.

786

We're looking at the judging

and the feedback we get is

787

really, really positive.

788

And I think that's because we

do a lot of market research.

789

With our poisoning committee, you

know, it's tested on real people

790

and it's made with real ingredients.

791

Caitlin: Yes.

792

It's all.

793

Clair: So I can stand behind the

product at the end of the day

794

and go, the quality is there.

795

But more than that, it's done ethically.

796

Every part of this, I can

stand behind and go, we're not

797

causing harm in our business.

798

And for every bottle sold, I go, you

know, that's more money for the community.

799

Our two focuses for when we're giving back

to community, we do environmental causes.

800

So for the Gudjuda Reference Group

they've got the Gudjuda Rangers.

801

We've paid.

802

500 towards, their training.

803

This is, we all say it's,

it's a portion of the profits.

804

There are no profits.

805

We're still donating anyway.

806

We also work with auntie Lyn Munns and her

women's group, and they are hand on heart,

807

the most amazing people I've ever met.

808

Auntie Lyn Munns works with

disadvantaged members of our community.

809

She sometimes calls them the down and

outers, the ones who've really struggled.

810

And she.

811

Not only provides a space for them

to sit and talk and feel safe, but

812

teaches really important life skills.

813

So, for example, she taught them

how to sew, so you can sew a

814

button back onto your clothes.

815

So you can, you know, feel good

about yourself wearing clothes that

816

aren't, you know, falling apart.

817

We went, and caught up and did a

cake decorating class, because they

818

went, well, what if we want to make

a cake for our, Granny's birthday.

819

I have never seen so many mature

women turn into children before.

820

No, you can't have the pink icing.

821

It's my turn with the pink icing.

822

I want to do a rose next,

so I need the pink icing.

823

Well, why don't you make a red rose then?

824

And it's so fabulous.

825

They had such a blast.

826

One of them is going to get

married in the near future.

827

And after doing that class, they've

all decided that They're going to come

828

together and the women's group is going

to make the wedding cake and decorate

829

the wedding cake as one as a gift to her

so she can, you know, have that so it's

830

really nice to see the difference we're

making community just by helping provide

831

opportunities and the thing is, is that.

832

Groups like that, a lot of people

say, Oh, we donate, but you can get

833

the donations back on tax if you

donate to certain approved groups.

834

But for us in our community, the

groups that don't fit the criteria,

835

who haven't applied to be a charity

often, cause they've got no one in

836

the group with that knowledge to

manage all of the paperwork for that.

837

Yeah.

838

They're not eligible for

any funding or support.

839

And so most of our money that we

sort of raise is sent to them because

840

It's about community and that's

what it has always been about and

841

always will be about, you know.

842

We want to support community in

every aspect and we often get people

843

go, oh it must be so easy being,

you know, an Indigenous business,

844

you must have so much funding.

845

We're not eligible for any funding.

846

We have been knocked back time and

time again because of the stigma

847

of Indigenous people and alcohol.

848

I even spoke to a government

agency and they said if you

849

were White would give you money.

850

If you were indigenous and it was

not alcohol, it would give you money.

851

But because it's both,

you're not eligible.

852

Caitlin: Another room blocking challenge.

853

What has that been like for you?

854

Clair: It's quite frustrating.

855

So, The stigma that people have is they

go, oh, we're thinking of people in

856

the park who are drunk off their face.

857

And they go, we don't want the bad

political story of the government

858

supporting Indigenous people to get drunk.

859

But that's not what it is.

860

For one, if you can afford to sit in

the park and get wasted on bottles

861

of gin that cost 80, you are not

in the demographic that, you know,

862

the government's worried about.

863

And it's not like, yes, we

are an indigenous business.

864

We are owned and managed

by indigenous women.

865

100%.

866

We're not exclusively selling

to first nations people.

867

In fact, most of our clients

are not first nations people.

868

They're people who just want to learn

about botanicals and, try something new.

869

For us, We don't see ourselves as

a source of harm, we're really very

870

focused on helping community and sort

of, you know, changing that dynamic

871

because I'm sick of being told Indigenous

people can't be trusted with alcohol.

872

And I always get comments of,

oh, so you're black, you must

873

drink all your products then.

874

And it's a case of no,

literally can't, not with my

875

allergy, can't drink any of it.

876

But there's something behind that.

877

Yeah.

878

And it means that, you know, I, I feel

like I have to fight twice as hard,

879

you know, to prove myself to try and

go look, you know, the fact that I'm

880

indigenous doesn't mean that I'm a hazard.

881

And even when you do like your RSAs

and you have to do, if you're running

882

a distillery and want to do markets,

you have to do a course that basically.

883

makes your manager in the

course, they're saying, Oh, you

884

know, you have to be careful.

885

So look out for people who are overly

drunk, , look out for people who are

886

under the influence of drugs, look

out for people who are indigenous.

887

And they're going, excuse me.

888

I made a complaint and they went, Oh

yeah, but that's just real life advice.

889

I'm going, you're just

spreading this racist nonsense.

890

That's just so deeply embedded.

891

So it does make it hard.

892

And the fact that I can't get any funding

is a challenge because as I said, I've

893

just used my limited house savings.

894

And it means that my parents are stuck

with me forever at this rate, the poor

895

things, but, you know, it's, When I look

back, I go, at first I was shocked that

896

there were no distilleries 100 percent

owned and managed by First Nations women.

897

But the more I learn about

it, the more I go, I see why.

898

You can't get any financial support for

it, when you can get financial support

899

for most other business ventures.

900

You receive abuse and

racism and awful comments.

901

And you know, the constant hate letters

and things like that wear people out.

902

For me as a social worker, if someone

comes up and, you know, tells me

903

I'm this and that and wants to

carry on and send me hate letters,

904

I've heard worse from clients.

905

So I'm not too bothered, you know, I

see it more as a reflection of them

906

than me, but, you know, You can see

it adds to the list of reasons why

907

people are going, why would I sign

up for this when it sounds terrible?

908

But the bad elements are definitely

outweighed by the good elements.

909

And there are some people in the industry

who are insanely supportive and fantastic.

910

And I've had support from

the strangest places.

911

There's a gentleman in New Zealand,

who has literally written the book

912

on distilling and he is fantastic.

913

And he's reached out and gone,

Hey, if you've got questions, I've

914

seen what you're doing, hit me up.

915

I might not be able to answer them, but I

can at least, you know, advocate for you.

916

And there's another gentleman who

makes vermouth who's over in England

917

and he's gone, look, I don't make

gin, but if it's a general question,

918

I'm here to help you.

919

So it's, it's lovely to know that there

are people out there who are keen to

920

support and help, and you just have

to learn to not listen to the people

921

who are, you know, full of hate and

vitriol, because if people want to be

922

hateful, they will find a reason to be

hateful, you know, I think my favorite

923

comment that's proved that is I had

someone at a course tell me that I'm

924

too fat to distill, being a plus size

person, and I've gone, that's proof.

925

You can be black, white, brindle,

male, female, it doesn't matter.

926

If you want to hate someone,

you'll find a reason to hate them.

927

And so you just go, yes, it's

frustrating, but the best thing

928

you can do is prove them wrong.

929

Caitlin: Yeah, you're taking all of

that and Yeah, channeling it into what

930

you're doing to prove them wrong and

like you say, give back to community

931

and make things better for them as well.

932

Clair: And it I do want to make, as cliche

as this sounds and I hate saying it, I

933

do want to make the world a better place.

934

I want to try and contribute to the

good things and it's easy to get bogged

935

down in, you know, the misery and the

hate and to feel sorry for yourself,

936

but that doesn't actually help anyone.

937

For me, I'd rather actively do something

every day that lets me go to bed at

938

night and go, I've tried to make this

better so that, you know, if we all pitch

939

in with the same approach of let's try

and make this place better, if we're

940

not happy with it, let's change it.

941

It means that we actually

eventually get a better world.

942

Caitlin: Yes, absolutely.

943

Little by little and changing

people's perceptions and all of that.

944

It takes a while, but you're absolutely

leading the way and it's an incredible.

945

Clair: We've only been

doing this since December.

946

So, you know.

947

Caitlin: Is that right?

948

I for some reason thought

it must've been a while.

949

Wow.

950

Clair: No, no, no.

951

So we're very new at this stage, but we've

got a big range and one of the benefits

952

of being so small is that a lot of the

big companies will have a very limited

953

range for us because we're tiny and we're

working from a little 65 litre still.

954

It means that I have the opportunity to

indulge even more in my creativity and,

955

you know, Indulge in the fact that I'm

so easily distracted by new botanicals.

956

So I can make, you know, 100 bottles

of something or 200 bottles of

957

something and then jump around.

958

And that's important because

we distill with the seasons.

959

So because we are using whole botanicals

and not those essences, it's literally

960

a case of, I'll go out on country.

961

Okay, this time of the year,

the plums are beautiful.

962

Let's harvest plums and make plum gin.

963

As soon as the plums are

no longer at their prime.

964

We stopped making plum gin, means

if we sell out before next year,

965

you just have to wait till the

next year when it's flowering

966

again and we've got our fruit back.

967

And I go, okay, well

now we don't have plums.

968

What else is good?

969

Ah, the ginger looks perfect.

970

Great.

971

Let's dig up some of our native

ginger and make ginger gin.

972

So we do have a big range.

973

It does, change a lot.

974

For some people, they

find that frustrating.

975

They go, oh, I fell in

love with cockatiel gin.

976

Why don't you have

cockatiel gin right now?

977

But it also means that I can guarantee

that every gin you get the flavour

978

when the plant's at its best.

979

Caitlin: Yeah, absolutely.

980

When it's at its best absolutely.

981

And tell me what, what's the future like?

982

What are your Goals and ambitions.

983

Clair: So in the immediate

future, I'm actually, flying

984

down to Canberra tomorrow because

we're launching a new gin.

985

So our newest gin, is going to be our

charming, our charming turkey gin.

986

And that gin is made with desert

limes, Tasmanian pepper berry.

987

It's also made with some redback ginger.

988

And to the best of our knowledge, we

can't find anyone else who's using

989

redback ginger to distil, which is a

shame because it grows all up around

990

Atherton and just north of here.

991

It's really easy to grow.

992

It's like normal ginger plants.

993

You get those beautiful big leaves.

994

It's called redback, simply

and purely because the back

995

side of the leaf is bright red.

996

So it's something that's ornamentally

used in a lot of places and

997

they don't know you can eat it.

998

But it's delicious.

999

And so we've distilled that

and we've paired that with

some chillies from our yard.

And our chilli blend is a lot of fun.

So we've just gone what's

growing in the veggie patch.

So we've got everything from

bird's eyes to Carolina Reapers

to one of my favorite chillies.

In my previous job, I worked at James

Cook University for a while, my local uni.

And the Botanical staff there got a

little bit bored and decided that the

lads would have a competition to see who

could crossbreed the spiciest chilli.

And so we have a very spicy

crossbred from the university that

we were given as a gift from them.

So that has, created quite a spicy blend.

And as a result, we put a very, very

tiny amount of chilli in the stew.

And we've learned some

very important things.

If you, put chilli in a still,

the actual part of the chilli,

the capsaicin that makes it spicy,

loves being in steam and mist form.

So that's a really great way of, basically

chilli spraying your entire office.

We've learnt that.

Also if you put really spicy chillies,

in pure alcohol and let it soak,

and then let that alcohol touch

your skin, you get chemical burn.

So, um, turkey's gonna be limited edition,

because I don't want to make it again.

Not anytime soon.

Caitlin: I've got too many

injuries for this one.

Clair: Well, it's terrible because

every time it happens, my workplace

health and safety officer complains

and then I have to do the paperwork.

But the problem is I'm also the

workplace health and safety officer.

So I'm the worker who gets injured,

the workplace health and safety officer

who complains about it, and then the

manager who has to do the paperwork.

So at the end of the day, I sit back

going, well, that was a bit stupid.

Probably could have looked into that

a bit better before you hurt yourself.

Oh well.

That is one thing that I would suggest.

If you, if you do decide to take

on a creative path and work for

yourself, have better workplace

health and safety than I do.

But yeah, look, it's a beautiful gin and

we thought it's great for winter because

it's got that gorgeous spice from the

chilli and the ginger and the pepper.

So we're going down to Canberra, to

the old Canberra Inn, on World Gin

Day and we're going to be there from

lunchtime until the evening, giving away

free gin samples of our entire range.

So people are welcome to

come and have a free drink.

Yeah.

Caitlin: Oh, I would have been there in.

A heartbeat.

I love gin a lot.

Clair: If you're down

in the area, come down.

If not, any time you're up around

here, we always do free tastings

because we appreciate that some of

our gins are really weird because

they are made from weird botanicals.

And that's why I say, come and taste it.

Try before you buy.

But we've got a whole range

of different things planned.

And so we've sort of mapped out

on the calendar when the different

seasons are so that we can go, okay,

This is when this is in flower.

Let's use this.

So heaps more coming out soon.

So yeah, lots of, lots of exciting plans

for the future for new gin releases.

A big focus for me at the moment

is using botanicals that have never

been commercially used before.

As I said, you've got the mimosa,

you've got the redback ginger.

We've got all of these really

cool plants that are so

incredible, but no one uses them.

The reason why they don't use them is

because they don't know they exist.

And I'm still learning

about botanicals myself.

I find myself walking through the street

and then, you know, one of my aunties will

be like, why aren't you using this plant?

I'll go, what on earth is that?

She'll be like, it's the tree next to you.

And the more I learned about

it, the more exciting it is.

It's a constant thrill and

it makes me really mindful.

And it's, it's also such a grounding

activity too, because now instead of

walking the dogs through the park, you

know, trying to make sure the dogs don't

bark anything and walking through the

park going, Oh, there's that, Oh, there's

this, Oh, look, that person's got that.

I wonder what I can gather.

I wonder what I can steal with permission.

So it's, it's such a pleasure, but yeah,

look, heaps more exciting things that'll

be coming out throughout the year.

And look, we're hoping to.

Visit more parts of Australia so that

we can expose more people to our genes.

Caitlin: Yes, please.

Clair: Yeah, keep an eye

out on our Facebook page.

We're always posting, lots

of photos, lots of videos.

I shouldn't have to say this,

but I've realized I now do.

On our Facebook page, we

use AI images of ibises.

At least once a week, I get a message from

someone very angry about the animal abuse.

How dare you catch an ibis and dress

it up as an Easter bunny for Easter.

I also have people thinking that

ibis gin is made with ibis feathers

and that the actual birds on

the labels are used in the gin.

So I'm not torturing wild

ibises, nor am I hunting rare

and wild birds to turn into gin.

I promise everything is safe.

It's all safe.

There's no animals

harmed in the production.

Caitlin: Oh wow.

Clair: Absolutely.

So yeah, on our Facebook page,

you can see our events, where

we're going, what we're doing.

We post lots of cocktail recipes.

All of our cocktail recipes are

with things that are made basically

from what you can get at Coles.

Some people will look at it

and go, Gee, she uses a lot

of cordial and a lot of this.

She uses the same things all the time.

Yeah, cause I went to Coles

and they're still in my fridge.

So I'm using them up

in the cocktail videos.

Caitlin: That's great though, isn't it?

Cause that's the thing

with some cocktail recipes.

You read them and you're

like, what is that?

Yeah.

Ingredient.

Clair: I'm not, I'm not a fancy bartender.

I've got no experience in that area.

So for us, it's a case of

what can you either get from

the garden or get from Coles?

So you'll find, you know, Oh, she's

using a lot of elderflower cordial.

Yeah.

Cause that's at Woolies and Coles.

Caitlin: Yes.

Clair: But it means that it's

stuff that people can easily, you

know, copy themselves at home.

If I've managed to do it with my level

of incompetence, you'll be totally fine.

Oh.

But yeah, we just, we hope to get out

more of our range as the season changes,

and our goal is just to really tell the

world who we are, and as I said, the

magical long term goal is that we hope

that we can become successful enough that

we influence the industry so that people

go, okay, fine, if that's what they People

want, because people vote by buying it.

That's how things are decided

in the commercial world.

If we can get enough support that maybe

the big industries will go, okay, we'll

do those ethical practices as well.

If we could one day achieve

that, that would be fabulous.

Or if we can influence more people

to go, you know, let's have more

distilleries, more indigenous

distilleries and have more representation,

that would be amazing as well.

Oh, absolutely.

Absolutely.

paving the way.

Definitely.

I mean, I can't wait to follow your

journey and I'm just thinking, I'm

like, I'm going to go and buy some.

Gin, as soon as I get off the call, like,

Buy on our website.

We ship all over Australia.

Caitlin: I for sure will have to,

but since you said that you do,

tourists of the distillery, I'll

have to come down one weekend or

one day and have a peek myself.

You can come and make your own gin.

We do, we do a variant

of gin making classes.

Most gin making classes are, here are

a list of like vodkas that they've

sort of pre distilled individual

flavours and you put little drops in

and try it and see what it's like.

For us, we're much more hands on.

We go, right, this is the

still, we'll help make sure

you don't blow up the house.

This is how distilling works.

This is the history of gin.

Good luck.

I'll be here with the fire

extinguisher just in case.

And we just give people a chance to

actually experience the whole process

hands on and I think it creates a greater

respect for the actual end product

when you realize what goes into it and

the time and the effort and the chaos.

The magical ingredient, maybe.

The chaos.

Clair: Everyone else says, oh,

this product's made with love.

Our gin is made with love.

And chaos.

And a small amount of swearing.

But, you know, I think that's,

that's the true story of creation.

Caitlin: It is, yeah, the true story.

And the failures and the

mistakes and all of that.

No, you've done a beautiful

job of talking about that.

Keep us updated as well about what's

going on because I would love to

share that with, the community, our

community, it makes me so excited

to know that what you're doing

exists warms my heart for sure.

Clair: Thank you so much and it's a

true passion project and you know I've

heard people talk of passion projects

before and I've never really appreciated

what that meant but you know it's

something that I'm doing because I so

strongly believe in the cause and I love

the process and, you know, it's, it's

mentally tough to an extent going, I'm

going to go and work, you know, five

days a week and you know that I'm not

making any money, but still at the end