Dresses that heal: How a psychologist’s inclusive dress shop fights diet culture with Bronwyn Wood

Hello, hello. Welcome to the place for offbeat health professionals who have bravely swapped their health care hats for non clinical creative caps. I'm Caitlin, a psychologist turned copywriter, and this is Healers with Hustles.

Caitlin: Bronwyn Wood is an endorsed health psychologist and board approved supervisor working in solo private practice. Bronwyn practices from a size inclusive non diet and health at every size framework. Bronwyn has channeled her diet culture rage into passion with a new side hustle, Bobby Dazzler Dresses, a safe and inclusive space offering dress size higher in sizes 14 to 30 in Albury Wodonga.

Beautiful. Well, welcome to the podcast, Bronwyn. I'm so excited you're here.

Bronwyn: I'm so excited to be here.

Caitlin: Thank you. And, I guess to get started, can you tell me a little bit about your psychology journey and what led you to where you are today

Bronwyn: Yeah. So my journey is probably a little different. I, studied mature age. So at this point in time, I'm now an endorsed health psychologist. I'm an, clinician and a board approved supervisor.but I'm also a year 10 school leaver. So I kind of left school, did a few other bits and pieces and then returned to uni as a mature age student.

and then I kind of just. shortcut all of that by saying I basically, had a child for every degree. So I have three degrees and three children, and just kind of did things. Yeah. Like a bit of a long way. always kind of knew I wanted to do something around psychology or perhaps journalism.

I really enjoy writing as well. yeah, but so a bit of a different pathway and now I work, I have my own private practice now. So, I have sort of a couple of different jobs. I work in the public system in the Persistent Pain Service. So that's kind of all coming under the umbrella of my health psych interest.

And I do a lot of body of engineering sort of work in my private practice. So I've been in private practice for over a decade and solo, just, for me at the last, just coming up four years.

Caitlin: wow. So cool. I love that. I'm just, yeah, thinking you would be a great person to have as a supervisor. I think you, in terms of your different career path, like different career path to being a psychologist, I feel like being an early career psych as well. It would really, I don't know, it would make things, I'd feel a lot more comfy, I think.

Bronwyn: Yeah, that's a good point, actually. And I actually really love providing supervision. I do. I really love that. It's just all about connection for me. also having those experiences as coming in and, and doing my psychology training and, As a mature age, student, and also at the time as a single parent, so doing all of that, I guess brings something a little different, to those experiences, and I know what sort of worked for me and what didn't, and certainly what got me through the psychology degrees was that I wanted to be there, and I definitely did not want to be at school.

Caitlin: Yeah, that's such a, that's an interesting, it's a good point you make there. I'm trying to think back to, like the psychology degree. It was so intense. So being a single parent must've been, must've been a A lot.

Bronwyn: Yeah, it was a lot. My, my daughter who is turning 30 this year used to come along to my undergrads lectures. Yeah, I think she probably took it all in at some point. yeah, so look at,

Caitlin: is she starting to be a psychologist?

Bronwyn: she's actually a social worker.

Caitlin: Wow. And tell me about your, health psychology,

Bronwyn: Yeah, so I think from the outset, it wasn't something I specifically chose. I, I guess my interest kind of all just led in that direction of health psychology. I was always really, I guess, part of that was probably two streams of that. Part of it was my, interest in body image and kind of eating concerns, which probably stemmed from my dissatisfaction in my own experiences in that area as a kind of adolescent and then getting older.

and then. The other side of that in terms of health psych just happened to be, one of my first roles was with, within an occupational rehab role for a rehab provider. And I just became really fascinated, with persistent pain, just was really wanting to understand it. My, my whole thing about getting into psychology in general was the why, just why is that like that?

And why do people think that way? What does that happen? And so I'm always really curious. And so I became really fascinated about it. And then subsequently a job came up in the local Persistent Pain Service. And so I've actually been there, since then. So it's in my, I'm in my 14th year. so yeah, and it's an amazing multidisciplinary team here in Elbury Wodonga.

yeah, so it just so happened that those two areas were just kind of under the umbrella of health psychology. And here in Albury Wodonga, we don't really have a lot of postgraduate options. we have more now, but I did my undergrad here at La Trobe and then my post grad, was the first, kind of trial program.

So we were kind of the guinea pigs and we would travel between Albury Wodonga and Bendigo.and do sort of a block program for our post grad year. And then when it came to choosing how I would go, forward, whether I, I had trouble getting a supervisor locally and finding an internship. So I basically just chose to do a master's and so Monash had a health psych master's.

So that's kind of sort of all the roads just led to that. And then I've just, it's, it's not all I do certainly, but it is definitely what my, my kind of interests and passion lie in terms of the whole mind body and looking at someone that way.

Caitlin: it's such a, it's such an important, role, but it's really complex work, right? I've had like colleagues that have worked in persistent pain and they've loved it, but they just said that they couldn't stay in there for long term. So you must really thrive in.

Bronwyn: I do, I do. But I actually, that's really interesting because I wonder if that's because I've been part of this amazing team. So our, our multidisciplinary team, the way that we work like that is I'm alongside physios and OTs and other psychologists and allied health, assistants and, and doctors. So I think, I think having that, and you've gotta have a really good team around you.

I, I think potentially that's probably, been why I have thrived so much. And then I kind of ta have taken. that into my individual work. And so I suppose when I'm seeing a client individually, I'm kind of wearing all the hats in my mind, thinking about the broader perspective. So yeah, kind of on the reflection, that's probably why I've been able to stay in it so long.

Caitlin: but that's such a great, like, point isn't about that, collaboration and the multidisciplinary teams and it's such an incredible thing to have, particularly as a psychologist as well. But then also people who value the work of a psychologist, I think is a,

Bronwyn: Absolutely. Yes.

a big thing.It's a mutual respect.

Caitlin: Yes. Exactly.

Exactly. And tell me about, I'm so curious about being a supervisor and how long have you done been a supervisor for?

Bronwyn: How long have you supervised? That's a great question. So I think probably seven or eight years now. So I've seen a couple of intern psychs through their sort of 4 plus 2 and then 5 plus 1 pathway. And then I just sort of provide clinical supervision to psychologists, but also dieticians sometimes because of the work that I do in the eating disorder space.

yeah, so I really, I really love that. I think we've probably all had varying, experiences with different supervisors. And for me, I sort of have experienced ones where I've come out of a session and felt like I know nothing. Like, that was a very much in my training going, Oh, I don't know anything.

I can't do this and that very much imposter syndrome. yeah. So, and then kind of the other end where I'm like, Oh, no, this is okay. This is good. I'm learning and I, I feel like I want to come away from, I don't want to be the expert in a supervision situation. I want to kind of come midway with that. I want people to feel comfortable to say what they, if they're not sure.

And, you know, we don't know what we don't know. I think an openness and curiosity and supervision is what I appreciate. and so that's, I guess, what I try to provide.

Caitlin: How lovely. I really like that because we've all had, like you said, we've all had experiences in supervision, which is like, Oh, I remember the anxiety with some supervisors. And then, you know, not to say that they're, they probably weren't a good fit for me maybe. And so I think it's so

Bronwyn: It has to be the fit though, doesn't it? Yeah, absolutely. It's about the fit. Yeah,

Caitlin: And, but how lovely that, yeah, you can, I don't know, be that supervisor for people bringing in that curiosity stance and all of that. Is that how you are as a therapist as well? I should imagine.

Bronwyn: I think so. And, and I honestly, like on reflection of my career and my pathway to this career, I, I feel like, all those years ago, you know, I waswhat's the word? Like, yeah, just feeling like there was too much to know and I couldn't possibly know it all and it took me a lot of years to realize I would never know it all.

So now I'm okay with that now that I actually know that that's the case.but I think for me, my, Development as a psychologist with clients or as a supervisor, has, I feel more at home with it the longer I do it. And I think particularly as I've gotten older and more experienced, more at home with just being me.

So very much in terms of feeling really aligned and really authentic with what you say is what you get. And, yes, I am professional. And yes, I, you know, provide evidence based treatment and do all the things. I'm also me. And really, so, I, I've just, for me, that feels like it's really aligned that I, and particularly now being in, the solo practice I've created is, it is just, me, but it's.

It means it's fully aligned with my values and my, my whole philosophy of how I work and so what you sort of get with me at a party would be what you'd get in a professional space,

Caitlin: that's amazing. that makes me so happy that you say that because it was something that I really struggled with and I didn't realize I was struggling. That was part, a big part of my imposter syndrome, particularly in masters was that I was like playing a psychologist. And so of course I was like, I actually was being a fraud because I wasn't like being who I was.

And so it took like a lot of supervision to be who I am. and be authentic and feel comfortable with that, with that, yeah, putting on this.

Bronwyn: And I think those experiences, particularly for me, what I would say to my supervisors now is, was what my experience was, the more that I tried to stick to this sort of textbook idea of psychological treatment, the less effective I was, because it's so far removed from kind of all the things about me that make me feel good about what I do and make me good at it.

so I'm not saying that's not there. You've got to have the foundations and all of that. But then the more that I could just be me and realize that. you know, I often felt when I came out of professional development, like I was like again, Oh, I know nothing. And then I felt like I was coming back into my practice with clients and I felt like I was kind of watering down the treatment and it took me some really good supervision to kind of go, actually, no, I, if I, I actually doing worse, if I try and follow this in a textbook fashion.

and so for me, blending the evidence based and the, and pulling those techniques, but not in a very rigid way. And then combining that with who I am as a person just is so much more effective and I connect so much more with clients.

Caitlin: So happy that you say that, well, I don't know what you think. Do you think that's a common thing? Like, or do psychologists maybe practice that way, but then they're a bit too scared to admit that. So they just say, Oh, I do the textbook evidence based thing or what do you think?

Bronwyn: I think that's a great question because I mean, I don't know the full answer, but potentially, because I know that I would have been, I was really apprehensive, apprehensive to say, Oh, I didn't quite do it how it said, or, you know, and, and now I'm having that experience where supervisors are coming to me saying, Oh, I just did this training and this is now how I feel.

I'm like, yep. So let's unpack that and let's talk about how we really needed the foundations. We needed all the ins and outs on the structure. But actually what we know is that, you know, if you were like, yes, when you were early career, you probably are going to be more effective if you're following that sort of structure.

But if I tried to do that, later in my career or more experience, then it's going to be less effective. So yeah, I'm all about honesty. I feel like we just need to sometimes just say it's really hard, but we do.

Caitlin: Yes. Yeah. It's I know the key times in my supervision that have been so helpful is just, yeah, when I get, you know, she's like, yeah, it's really hard. I'm like, thank you.

Bronwyn: Yeah, absolutely. So validating.

Caitlin: Absolutely. and tell me all about your side hustle and how and why you started it.

Bronwyn: got? I could talk all night.

Caitlin: Love it.

Bronwyn: I'm so passionate, so excited to talk about it. So, basically this was me channeling my rage into passion. I, an idea came to me that I just could not let go of. And it was something that once the idea came, I just ruminate on it for a full 24 hours and went, fuck it, I'm just gonna do it

Pretty much. I just had a fuck it moment. So, the lead up to this moment was really, a few different layers, particularly having held space for so many years for predominantly women. who hated their bodies, hated themselves, fought against their bodies. you know, we're all living in this diet culture that says we all should be thin, we all should be this thin ideal, and we should look in a certain way.

And those pressures, They just become too much. And my, I suppose, initial, as everyone does have a kind of a normative discontent with their body as they're growing up, which, you know, the fact that it's normative is enraging to me, but that's kind of where we are. so having experienced my own body image concerns and then changes in my body shape and size over time and then sharing space with my clients who are so distressed.

distressed people coming in from the full spectrum of, you know, kind of the pointy end of really severe eating disorders, to disordered eating, to chronic dieting, and you know, so the whole spectrum. And so that grew my experience with that kind of, grew into a space where I was becoming so enraged at the world, really, because this is not an issue that is happening in a vacuum inside a woman's head.

This is the culture that we live in. And so when we can do the work that we do individually with someone, but then they go out into the world and they can't walk into a shop and buy the clothes that fit their body because they only go to a certain size.so we can, you know, we're, when we're not inclusive, we're told our body is wrong.

And I'd had lots of experiences of advocating and supporting clients through really significant experiences of weight bias and weight stigma and seeing the detrimental effect that that has on someone's mental health, particularly when they're trying to recover from an eating disorder.and so that was my kind of, context and then I was going to lots, I'm quite social, I was going to lots of social events and locally here there were, some dress hire businesses and I was sort of hearing I'm hiring this dress or I hired this dress for this event and I was starting to talk to my friends about that and, basically what came to light was that these dress hire businesses, didn't go higher than a size 14 or 16 and, So I made an inquiry and asked about that to one particular that was quite, prominent in the area.

And I really just was not okay with the response that I received. And that's when I couldn't let the idea go. And so I thought, well, if no one else is going to do this, I'm going to be the change I want to see in the world. And so. Bobby Dazzler Dresses was born.

Caitlin: Wow. Beautiful. I, oh, it makes me so, happy in one way, but like absolutely the rage and the, oh, it's, it's fucked, isn't it? It really is.

Bronwyn: Exactly.

Caitlin: And that must be so hard, like sitting in sessions with, your patients or your clients and for them, to be witness to all of that. But then you see the larger, like the context of where we live and our culture and all of that.

And it's like, well, of course, yeah,

Bronwyn: Of course you feel that way. Of course you do. Of course you feel like you're not okay in the world. And, you know, I feel like, for me, I mean, there's so much that needs to change and we can talk about, you know,you know, waiting room chairs and the size of that and blood pressure cuffs that don't fit.

And we can talk about all of the things that people in larger bodies experience. And I guess when we think about, you know, wearing a dress, it might not seem like it's a serious enough issue. And I suppose for me, I, I feel like it's one of those things where women would just say no to invitations or they would go, Oh, no, I won't go to that.

Or they would wear the same dress every time. And for me, although it's. you know, a dress, I don't, I don't know whether it seems a bit flippant when we think about all the kind of medical stigma and things that people experience, but I believe that all bodies should be celebrated and deserve to be celebrated.

And why should one body, feel included and another shouldn't, like, it just doesn't make any sense to me. Yeah.

Caitlin: that's so true in terms of like people turning down invitations and it has such a.like a ripple effect in their whole life. Wow. And tell me about the process for starting your business. Like, are you business orientated? was that an easy thing to do or?

Bronwyn: What a great question because, apparently I am, but I didn't know that. I didn't set out to be, I guess, a business owner as such my initially with my psychology practice, that was sort of, occurred for me at a time where I needed to create something that fit with what was happening for me in my life at the time.

And so going solo and creating my business, sort of, you know, happened through COVID and lots of family stuff happening at the same time. And I kind of needed to do it. So I had to kind of learn all those things about how do you have a business, you know, I I'm a psychologist and this is what I do clinically, but also then.

How do I actually do this in, in the structure of a business? So I learned a lot then, but I guess for me then, so I suppose, yes, on reflection, I had some grounding to that, to running a business. But then really, what a, I don't know, it was such a scary and exciting thing to create Bobby Dazzler from scratch.

and really when I say I couldn't let go of the idea, I literally could not let go of the idea. And I could, I really, I don't often hyper focus on things. It's not a strength I have, but when it came to this, I couldn't stop thinking about it. And I created every little bits and pieces of it, until it was ready.

and I loved that because I would not describe myself as a creative person. I would say that I don't really have any kind of talents like that in terms of creativity. I love to write, so I love the social media aspect, but that was something I probably hadn't even envisioned and didn't really think that that was going to be a huge part.

I was like, just how do I get, you know, A whole heap of dresses for different sized bodies was kind of what I was focused on. and so I was obsessively buying dresses.

So that was fun, but not

Caitlin: So fun.

Bronwyn: not so fun for my credit card and my husband.

Caitlin: You're right. There's something about that, about.does the creativity come, from the idea, or is it, something that we have inside ourselves, and it, is dormant until we have an idea, or, I don't know

Bronwyn: Yeah,

Caitlin: like,

Bronwyn: think it's actually what that is touching on is my definition of creativity and my perception of myself. I think what that's getting to. So when I used to think about creativity, I was like, Oh, you created something that I can, you can show me like you did an art piece or, and I suppose, yes, I did create something I can show you.

But for me, What I have realized, through different business plans and having to really define what I'm doing is that actually I created, I am a creator, you know, I created Bobby Dazzler Dresses. And so, I talk so passionately about it because it was this idea I couldn't let go of and I'm living it, I'm doing it, and it's, and it's beautiful.

Working, you know, so yeah, I created something and it is out there in the world, even if the world at the moment is a little local, small world. Yeah.

Caitlin: Yeah, but it's that, it's, like, literally, you've created something into, Being, but there is something so creative about business. there really is.

Bronwyn: So I didn't realize, but absolutely there is. Yeah.

Caitlin: I'm really curious about the name. Bobby Dazzler Dresses. Tell me about that.

Bronwyn: So Bobby Dazzler is me. So essentially, Bobby was a nickname. So Bobby Dazzler was a nickname. Well, Bob, Bob or Bobby was a nickname that my sister gave me early on when we were teenagers. and that kind of stuck through, our local community here, particularly the water polo community. I play sport and I play with my sister and everybody in that community would know me as Bobby.

And my sister would, you know, across the pool saying, go Bobby Dazzler. And so it was just something that kind of stuck. And then when I was trying to think, what am I going to call this business? It's gotta be, it's got to have meaning. It's got to be me, but it's got to say dresses. And then I was like, Oh, what does Bobby Dazzler actually actually mean other than my nickname?

And of course it means a spectacular, thing, personal thing. And so that's how I see all women. So, you know, Bobby Dazzler is it just represents what I want, how I want women to feel about themselves.

Caitlin: That's, Oh. It gives me goosebumps how, how lovely that it has so much meaning and it's such a unique name as well, which is so important, you know, for, branding and SEO and all of that, but then also to have something that's so impactful. Wow.

Bronwyn: I, I didn't know that. So I think, you know, when we think about things we don't know, I didn't realize that I wanted a name that fit really well with what I was doing and that meant something genuine to me. But I didn't actually realize that that would then be a brand in itself.

And that's been really cool. and actually in terms of identity. So I've had experiences where, in the local business women's community. I actually, when I started Bobby Dazzler, the reason I suddenly thought, Ooh, perhaps I can propel this is because I, there was some business grants available. And so I went for a grant and actually won one.

so yeah, so that was just amazing. Because I guess for two reasons. One, obviously the initial funds to set everything up, but also it allowed me to kind of go, Oh, I've got to write a business plan. I've got to refine what I'm doing and define that and put that out into the world and start talking about it.

So it really gave me the opportunity to think about the language and what felt right for me. and then as that kind of went on and I got to know more people and when was networking in that, amazing business community, I became known as Bobby Dazzler. And so that was then really interesting, because more recently I was asked to be on a panel, as a health psychologist for the Butterfly Foundation here in Albury.

And everyone was like, wait, hang on a minute. What's Bobby Dazzle doing out there talking about, you know? So I think it really depended on, I guess I would say I wear many hats and they all for me at the moment kind of intersect and collide because it's all me. It's my, you know, it feels really authentic, but I guess for people on the outside, it depends what kind of context you've met me.

Caitlin: Yeah. Wow. that makes me so excited to hear. That all of your roles are like interconnecting when it's you and you feel like this beautiful, comfortable space, has it always been like that or was it a bit hard at the start to juggle those two?

And I sought supervision specifically around that, through some amazing people in groups of vision as well as individual. and, you know, you kind of go to that more, Anxious, anticipatory. Ooh, what can, what am I, what am I not thinking of? What have I got to think about? And honestly, the more that I then did that, I was like, Oh, this is actually really fine.

This is good. We just need to communicate because I would have, you know, clients who these amazing people who are like, I want to come see the dresses. And I'm like, fantastic. You, you know, come and do that on a day when that's open. That's, you know, but they're very separate. But at the same time, it is me.

It's authentically I'm saying this is something, this is something I feel really strongly about in the world, because I feel I really value social justice. And so for me, doing the work that I do in a psychological sense, and then having this on the side is authentic. It's me saying this is in the world, we should be able to have all things equal and inclusive in terms of sizing.

Caitlin: absolutely. And you're living it so genuine and authentic and. Oh, can we talk a little bit, if you feel comfy about that, like ethics and as a psychologist in particular, and holding those two roles. Cause it's something that I know listeners are very, well, like in terms of the Facebook group, I ask people when they join, like what their biggest like wobble or mindset wobble is surrounding having a creative business.

And it's all the psychologists are like APRA, ethics, the therapy police.

Bronwyn: Scary big brother.

Caitlin: Yes. Yeah.

Bronwyn: Look, am I going to get audited if I say that I'm probably a bit more lax with it all now than I used to be? No. Let me expand on that. So,

Caitlin: We can edit that out. Yeah.

Bronwyn: Yeah, but what I mean, what I mean by that is thinking about that. Like, obviously, I'm very, as we all have to be very mindful of ethics and boundaries.

And I also work in a regional area. So, you know, what fits here in this location may not fit in a city. And so, if I had, you know, my worlds may never collide if I was in a city, but of course here they're going to. They're absolutely going to. for me, My initial concerns were how do I, The crossover in terms of because obviously you've got to look at that potential to make profit of something and so dress higher whilst it's really never going to make money.

Of course it is seen that you are charging people money. So for me that was a concern as well as the very vulnerable space that clients are in and then perhaps wanting to come in and try on dresses. So very well aware that that is a very different context, coming in and being helped with, trying a dress on and all coming in and talking about body image in a psychological setting.

So really well aware of all of those types of things and then also I've had to really bite my tongue and be very well aware of my, the hat I'm wearing in the dress hire space, because women will also become distressed, and be beating themselves up and being really critical. And I, my instinct is to say all the things, and I know that that's not my space or place to do that. I'm not sure if that answers your question.

Caitlin: No, it definitely does. But I think it just speaks to the, it's not exactly a clear answer and particularly working in, you know, a regional area, like you're right. It's

Bronwyn: Absolutely. And I think that the other aspect of that is, I guess, being kind of the face of Bobby Dazzler and the face of, you know, I am a psychologist. And so, there's, there's that, you know, I mean, there's, For me, I'm very, I guess who I am and what I do is not hidden. I'm not going to hide personal aspects.

I'm not going to cross boundaries and share all my personal details with clients. And at the same time, I am going to probably, you know, I'm going to present,a little bit more personally in the dress hire space. You know, I'm going to say, you know, I'm going to speak in my language and I might say that differently in a professional space.

So I guess there is that. And I'm really okay with people seeing that and having that kind of different context, which, you know, on reflection might feel weird for some clients kind of going, Oh, okay, that's my psychologist. What's she doing outside the office? You know, doing that and talking about dresses.

So that can feel weird when you feel like a psychologist is just in that chair and they don't have a life outside that chair.

Caitlin: yes, yeah, a hundred percent about that, which is so interesting to think about, you know, in terms of bringing that up and bringing that into the room and talking about that with patients. It gives a lot of, there's a lot of material there that can be very useful that maybe if, yeah, it was just in the therapy chair in the room, that's it, it kind of, I don't know, restricts things, but it just opens up a whole new world to be explored potentially.

Bronwyn: Mm. Yeah, for sure.

Caitlin: Kind of an interesting thing. speaking of that, how has, So Bobby Dazzler opened in March 20, March 23, did you say?

Bronwyn: Yeah, so March last year I had a sort of a soft launch. It had, yeah, been kind of building from, the year, like, sorry, the November, December prior.

Caitlin: And how has, Having the creative side hustle impacted your clinical work.

Bronwyn: Yeah, so I, I didn't really know that this would happen for me, but being able to, as I said, channel that rage into passion, it's actually really helped with burnout. It's helped prevent that. whilst yes, it is, there's more things on my plate, you know, I have to, there's more time that needs to be balanced because I am doing something that feels.

It's so right and it's fun, you know, and it's, I've met the most amazing women and seeing women who are like, Oh, I could not ever, you know, try that on, or I would never have picked that up before, but instead, because you created a safe space, I was, you know, I felt okay to try this different dress on.

And then that's the one they walk out the door with. Like that's amazing. So to have that kind of balance out some of the real kind of toxic diet culture stuff that, you know, we're talking about in the therapy room. It's really empowering, actually, and it has actually balanced it out a bit, and I think, you know, those aspects of my psychology work being, you know, a few, a few layers to that, probably working long term, long term as a psychologist, but also long term with long term eating disorders.

So these are not short, therapy stints. You know, we have to take care of ourselves when we work in that, that space and also in pain. So these are not things that kind of just go away and then the person's all good. And so, you know, along the way, the frustrations we might feel and, and also working solo and all of that can lead to, I wouldn't say I've been completely, burned out solely because of work, but at times definitely when there's been other things happening for me, for sure.

and I really feel that having this is. It's something that's really exciting. It is a creative outlet. I feel that it makes it feel lighter in the therapy space for me, if that makes sense.

Caitlin: Yeah, no, absolutely. As you're talking, I'm just ferociously nodding my head.

Bronwyn: Yeah.

Caitlin: agree with all of that. I'm so it makes me so happy in a way, that you say about that, like with the burnout and how it's helped soften the blowing. Because you're right. It's like it channels. rage, whatever, like all of those, totally human emotions.

It channels it, having a creative outlet into something.

Bronwyn: all of these things that I'm getting so angry about, but I can change this one thing. I can make a difference here. You know, this is what I, and, and genuinely it has made a difference, you know, and that may not be for a, on a large scale, but it definitely is making a difference for people.

And it's made a difference for me and then for my friends and my family and then the broader community. And I'm really proud of that because. You know, also it's not just me, like Bobby Dazzler is me, but I'm surrounded by this huge network of support and it wouldn't be Bobby Dazzler without that. And so, you know, I hope that this is something the community can own and go, we have this here, you know, we have this inclusive space, this safe space where we can go and celebrate our bodies and we don't have to dread the invitation.

You know, we don't have to just wear black, you know, we can. Yeah.

Caitlin: Oh, that's so important. Have you done, had much PR around the shop?

Bronwyn: So, yes, little bits and pieces. So, because I did apply for one of the local business women's grants, there was a fair bit of sort of, social media advertising through that inadvertently. And then the local paper did a story. I, this is probably, I'm at a point now where I'm going, okay, what do I do now?

Because I naturally had a, I sort of had a natural growth of followers from that. and. Now I'm kind of going, Oh, okay. Like this is something you have to continue to work out because this is business. And so I think the reality of that now, but it kind of the honeymoon phases. Yeah. So apparently I'm still going to get working.

And so, yeah, so. I think what I'm doing, and actually that's been really great because I'm linking into some business supports, which is actually going to be for both. So for my hustle, my dress for hire hustle, as well as for my psychology practice, I'm like, Oh, because I feel lighter and I feel more inspired and my brain's working a little better.

I'm like, Oh, great. Okay. So I don't just have to keep doing the same thing in my private practice. I can think about whether I want changes or how to improve. So it's actually kind of had that bounce off effect for that. Yeah.

Caitlin: Oh, that's so cool to hear that, like, whereby having the creative outlet or yeah, creative side hustles. It's allowed you to maybe expand or rethink how your private practice could be.

Bronwyn: Yeah, and I could not, I couldn't have pictured that that would have that impact.but I suppose maybe now I'm reflecting it's kind of like, because this was created from nothing, you know, from scratch, and you, you know, you kind of do all these things and it grows into something and it becomes something then it does kind of has inspired me to kind of go, well, yeah, okay, so that can happen.

So we can do that. With other things. Yeah. Yeah.

Caitlin: absolutely. Yeah. That's interesting. , my, master's thesis was on, art therapy with psychologists, as an intervention for burnout and one of the major, yeah, which was amazing. and we also needed it, we were definitely burned out. And the biggest finding, in terms of, like the quantitative data was like a,increase, significant increase in self efficacy, which makes sense now that like you're saying,

Bronwyn: Yes.

Caitlin: now I'm seeing that in practice.

Yeah. Oh, cool.

Bronwyn: Oh, that makes so much sense. Yeah.

Caitlin: Yeah.

Bronwyn: Yeah,

Caitlin: few years now. awesome. So what are you thinking for your, private practice? have you had put any ideas floating around?

Bronwyn: I guess, I have ideas floating around that I haven't, I haven't really landed on anything yet. I, I think I'm at the stage where I'm thinking, well, for me, I, I probably could want to diversify some of what I do or how I do what I do. I'm also thinking whether I expand, do I stay kind of just hanging out on my own?

for me, it's really important that if I was to expand that, whoever I was connected with, had very, you know, shared values in terms of the size inclusive approach, health at every size, non diet, that's really, really important to me. Yeah, so if I were to find my people and there was a kind of a really mutual, nice, authentic connection that I would consider expanding, but for me individually, I think just diversifying a little bit and thinking, you know, and I guess like part of what I've really loved with the side hustle is teaching myself social media and like I did social media before personally, but also a little bit for my practice.

But then I have to do a whole lot of it for the dress hire. So Bobby Dazzler kind of had to be created from scratch with all of that, and that was actually really fun. And so there's so much we can do online now. And so I think for me, I'm like, oh, I could, you know, there are so many different things I could do and that, so I, I suppose I'm kind of looking at that and what I've enjoyed creating there and thinking how can I apply that to my practice and perhaps do something that is a little bit more creative in that space rather than what I do is the bulk is really individual therapy.

Yeah,

Caitlin: I have so many options, but that's

Bronwyn: there is lots of options. Yeah. It's got to feel right. And I keep doing the sort of, Oh yeah, Jesus. Oh no, I don't know. And you know, kind of, it's, it's a little bit of a fear thing, but I guess much like Bobby Dazzle was once I landed on it, once I was like, Oh, Oh yeah. Then there was no going back because I just had to.

And so when I land on that for my practice that I will do that. So yeah. And very much my practice was created that way. It was Yes, out of necessity needing a framework to do my practice. and but at the time I also I taught myself how to do the website and I, you know, worked out all the ins and outs of things.

So, things that I didn't know. And so I feel like all those skills can come together to kind of keep creating, something a little bit different and to keep the passion there.

Caitlin: Yeah. Absolutely. Oh, I'm so excited to see what, what you do, but how great that you enjoy all the online marketing because that's often something that people don't like. So

Bronwyn: Yeah, I find it fun. Yeah, it is fun. And I feel like because it, and I, I think that links into being authentic and that Bobby Duzzler is me because whatever I put out there is genuine. I'm kind of not trying to say that. Sound like something else. I'm not trying to be something else. It's just, it's just all me.

It's all my words. And you know, the, the pictures, the models that I use are all friends and family of all different body sizes and local community members. And so, you know, my son is a photographer. He's so talented and like, it's just everything you see is just me and the people that support me and surround me.

So it just feels, it feels really beautiful and really special. And that's absolutely not something that I predicted when I started. Yeah.

Caitlin: Wow. I'm so happy for you that you get to do that and, but you get to give that gift to so many people. That's a beautiful thing.

Bronwyn: And that, that response from others has been, that's been really nice. Just, you know, the emotional side of people really just seeing that. saying thank you for creating this space and people have told me even through just, you know, trying on dresses that they feel like they're healing. And, you know, that's huge.

There's lots of different ways to heal. Yeah.

Caitlin: Thanks. Love it. So. It really is. But even just having the shop there, like it's a reminder, right? It's like so symbolic. I think,

Bronwyn: Yeah, absolutely. I, I won't even put the dresses in size order because I don't want to focus on the tag size, right? Like I just don't, I don't even want that. It's like, don't worry about the tag. Just if it looks like it's going to fit, let's try it. If it doesn't, doesn't matter, you know, you don't have to change to fit that dress, that dress has got to fit you and, you know, feel comfortable in it.

Caitlin: wow, shit. Yeah. Like that's such a, to put it politely, like a mindfuck, like how shops are set up

Bronwyn: Right.

Caitlin: in like, Yeah. Wow.

Bronwyn: and we do, we walk out feeling like, oh, well, I've got to go change my body because I didn't fit into that. Like, well, no, no, no, no, that's not you. That's fashion industry. That's the world. So, you know, there's so much in it that I didn't realise and so not just ignoring the tag slides, but making sure the clothing that I'm purchasing is adaptable, that it's, you know, stretchy and not restrictive and that different size bodies can wear it.

So, you know, I'll promote something and all my dresses have names, so they're quite personalized. So that's fun. I named them all. And so I'll say, you know, introducing whoever it might be. And I might say, tag size. 18 fits 16 ish to 20 ish because it's adaptable and, that is also in line with my value of sustainability.

Like, let's find a piece of clothing that is adaptable for lots of different people, could be worn by lots of different people and not, you know, we often buy one expensive dress and it hangs in the back of the cupboard forever.

Caitlin: Ex. Oh, exactly.

Bronwyn: yeah, yeah. So it hits a few values. Yeah.

Caitlin: And like, how lovely that you can set it up how you want, you know, who cares what what everyone else is doing. It's like, I'm gonna do it my way. And that's so exciting.

Bronwyn: that is actually a really cool part. I think I feel like the stage in life I'm at, and that's, that's sort of like, not what I meant that I'm going to go against a big brother opera, not at all. But it is very nice to be able to realize you're at a stage of life where you can do things the way you want to do them within those boundaries and confines.

And that's ethical and all of that for both businesses. but actually it's kind of like going, Ooh, I'm, I'm the adult. There's no adultier adult to find to do, you know? And so that's really empowering, like a little bit scary, but you're like, wow, I can do whatever I want. It's mine. Yeah.

Caitlin: Yeah, sorry, so true. I'm so relatable about that. Yeah. Like you realize this is mine. It's my business. And even with the psychology, it's like, yeah, APRA is there and the rule, you know, our rules and ethics are there and like, they're so important and they're boundaries, but it, it's not.

It doesn't mean that we can work in a way that still fits us.

Bronwyn: absolutely. And that's what I feel like when we do that, when certainly for me, when I do that and I'm me and naturally, you know, just feel natural and relaxed in it. I do better work. You know, I connect in a, in a more authentic way and that's helpful for clients, you know? Yeah.

Caitlin: absolutely, it's so helpful. that's what I've reflected on since I've started my copywriting and feeling comfortable with that, and then also feeling comfortable having the two. Like my. for retention so much better. I'm getting better results with my, patients.

Like it's fun. yesterday I had a full day, like back to back patients. And at the end of it, I was fine. And I've never been like that before. It was wild. I was like, is this how it can be?

Bronwyn: oh my gosh. I used to be halfway through the day and I'd be like, I don't feel tired, but my eyes can't stay. They feel like sand. Like I just can't. And now I'm like, this is amazing. I love it. And I've created space and it's all bright and light. And I'm like, this is great. Not saying I never get tired.

It's not, it's not a miracle. And just for that, but yeah, it's, I feel like when you set yourself up and you're, you know, You know, I guess it's what we are trying to help clients. So if you can work in line with your values and live the life you want to live, then we feel better. It's such a, that's just simple thing yet so complex sometimes.

And it doesn't seem as simple when there are struggles, but I think when you've experienced that, when you can just be yourself and create an environment around you and create kind of the life you want to live in that structure and,having a little bit of freedom, we're not all afforded that. But I think that's what I feel really lucky about and grateful that I can kind You know, my children are a little older now, so, I'm not rushing home for dinner, and they're actually fine if I've got to stay and do another little, you know, someone's coming to try to dress on, that's okay.

So, you know, there's certain freedoms that come with that, that flexibility in this stage of my life and career.

Caitlin: Yeah, absolutely. It's a, it's a beautiful gift to have. I was talking to interviewing, someone recently, Rachel, who's a florist. And she was saying that it's expanded her worldview, having a creative business on the side. Like she didn't know how amazing life could be.

Bronwyn: Yes. Yeah. And I don't think there's no way that I knew that, you know, like, there's no way I could have known that when I started the side hustle, but it was going to bring all of these other benefits. I really genuinely was just like, I cannot not do this. Like, I can't let this go. This is not okay.

And if no one's going to do it, I'm going to do it. And then just kind of launched and just once it started, I couldn't stop creating it. And I didn't really think about those, I suppose, consequences or benefits for me. I didn't really think about that.I was more thinking about what I wanted to put out into the world and what I wanted to create for others to make it more inclusive.

and of course I'm part of that because. You know, I was impacted by, you know, the same as other women, but yeah, I didn't, I don't think I realized that it would come with all of these, nice perks.

Caitlin: Yes. That's yeah. But you've spoken to something that's like bigger than yourself, right? Like it's, that. Thing that we can't not do it now because you've got that idea and it feels so important and, and, yeah, it is, isn't it?

Bronwyn: Yeah, to have that and be like, yeah, like, yeah, I'm going to change the world in this tiny little way, but I'm going to,

Caitlin: tiny little way, but it's but you do, you're changing the world for someone and that's so powerful. So powerful. And what, advice or is there anything that you wish you, that you know now that you wish you knew at the start when you were first setting up your side hustle?

Bronwyn: Honestly, I'm not sure. I think it depends on. Where you're at with your knowledge, you know, kind of links back to your question around sort of, you know, do you know anything about business kind of thing? So I suppose it's very, very much depends on context. So I think I had kind of a starting point. I don't know what I wish I knew, but what I probably would say in terms of advice was.

Surround yourself with your people, and talk to the people who are going to be real with you and have that support and lean into that. Because once I did that, for me, it was like, it really helped me refine going, you know, cause obviously it was a big idea and I had to kind of bring it back down to earth a little bit.

And, and that was really through the help of people that I trusted and who were kind of, you know, Really there to support me and one of the best and saw it. It's something in that. And so I think whether that is accessing any kind of business supports and resources, but also just the people around you that are going to give you good advice and bounce off you and help you out because I honestly couldn't have done this on my own.

It really did take the help and support of all of those people around me. So I think for anyone find, find people and talk to people. There's something really valuable in that in connecting with others and. We all learn from each other. So kind of going, Hey, I know about this side, but I have no idea about this.

You want to swap some resource. I think that that's an amazing resource to tap into in our communities.

Caitlin: support is so incredibly important I'm so excited for you that you have, like, it's a, it's a community affair and a family affair and like how, how lovely, I'm really excited to, yeah, keep an eye out.

So now for my secret favourite part of the interviews, which is the rapid fire questions. Now, Bronwyn, or Bobby Duzzler, as I maybe should say, What is your favourite film, a concert you'll never forget, and an absurd thing about you, or an absurd thing that you love?

Bronwyn: My favorite movie of all time is Good Will Hunting, but if I was going to watch something funny, it'd have to be Bridesmaids or Pitch Perfect. Concert I will never forget Alanis Morissette. I've seen her all four times she's come to Australia. Amazing. An absurd thing that I love would have to be my love of wearing comfortable pajamas and t shirts to the point where they have holes in them.

My family think it's absolutely absurd.

Caitlin: And then speaking of that, how can listeners find you both in person and online?

Bronwyn: Yeah, absolutely. So if listen to our local to or Riverdonga, you know, little community here. so I have regular walking wardrobe is what I called it. So little pop ups and then, by appointments. So people can find me on Instagram and Facebook, Bobby Dazzler dresses. And yeah, just. Send me a message if somebody wants to come in.

So at this stage, I'm really just only for in person. I'm not doing, not kind of going too big too soon in terms of, mailing in Australia or anything like that. So it really is just for our community here. but yeah, really want to grow the followers to grow the, you know, so that the word is out there, because it really is, you know, more than dresses.

So yeah, follow along the journey.

Caitlin: definitely. I'll pop all of those links and the links to your socials and everything in the show notes. But is there anything that you feel like you need to say or any, anything that came up that I didn't ask you?

Bronwyn: Honestly, I don't think so. I, that was just so nice to be able to reflect on all of those aspects and there probably was something burning that I, that I will remember it to in the morning, but no, I mean, no, I look, I

Caitlin: it. So it's a

Bronwyn: I think it's a really good sign that the passion is still there for me, and I'm just like, this is really cool.

And obviously it's hard to win anything we do to try and keep the energy up and do all of that. And I think. You know, Bobby Dazzler is kind of now on its own little journey. And so, you know, there's been, you know, a little lull and I'm like, Oh, okay, right. Hang on a minute. I'm going to keep doing this. I just love what it is doing for women and for women to allow themselves to feel vulnerable, to kind of, you know, not see their body as a problem and to be able to, yeah, just to celebrate and to feel comfortable in their own skin.

Yeah.

Caitlin: beautiful thing. It really is. Yeah. thank you for coming on the podcast and sharing all of that. It's yeah, it definitely, it gives me energy. Oh, you're so welcome.

Bronwyn: what you're doing. I love it. Thank you so much. What a cool. I love it. Healers with hustles. I'm just like, that's me. I need to be there.

Caitlin: it. Yeah, that's it.

Bronwyn: I love it so

Caitlin: Healers with Hustles. That's it.

Bronwyn: Love it.

Caitlin: Aw, beautiful. Thank you much, Bronwyn.

Bronwyn: So welcome.

Caitlin: Alright, that's the end of another episode. Thank you so much for tuning in to Healers with Hustles. If you've enjoyed today's episode, will you do me a tiny favour and subscribe to the show? Just tap the subscribe button on your favourite podcast platform and you'll be the first to know as soon as a new episode drops.

Thanks so much for listening. Okay, ta ta for now.